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lloyd
Since 16 Aug 2007
108 Posts
Hood River
Stoked
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Sun Dec 29, 13 6:28 pm |
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Hey BWD. You seem to be stuck on this pre-flight thing. When I said earlier that I had checked the gear out, I meant it. The purpose of the story was not to debate my minute by minute actions and I purposefully didn't go in to the details. If you are so diligent with your pre-flight checks, then I'm sure you'll have no problem posting the exact lengths for all of the bridals on your kites. Furthermore, I'm sure you can provide us with the amount of stretch each line incurs during each use. There is a reasonable amount of effort a person should be expected to perform. Validating bridals lengths, in my opinion, is outside the norm of a pre-flight check. I know of no one who has ever verified the length of the bridals before flight. Although, I do now..........
I never said my self launch at Rowena was the first time I flew the kite. I did fly it in extremely light winds on the sand bar the week before. It did feel more powerful than I was expecting, and figured it was a line setting/attachment point on the kite. I had the kite set on all of the middle knots. The day of the accident, knowing that previously the kite felt strong, I rigged it on all of the last / most depowered settings. As mentioned before, it was 18"-22" too long. No amount of adjustment anywhere in the system would make up for that amount.
If you are confident as to your reaction time of activating the safety, instead of attaching your lines to your kite, tie them to the bumper of your car. Have your friend drive off as fast as he can across a gravel parking lot. Try to reach the safety, bet you can't. The initial jerk of the kite almost folds your body in half backwards. Once your body hits the ground and you're being drug face down, counting the bones as they break, there's no way of activating the safety. Your hands are too busy protecting your face and skull. Besides, to put your hands between you and the fast moving rocks below you would for sure shred them beyond recognition. If you're lucky enough to be alive, let alone conscious, before the kite starts another loop, you might be able to activate your safety. It happens fast, I'm telling you. Faster than anything you can imagine. Unless you've experienced it, please save your assumptive comments for someone else. Very few people live to tell the story I have. We are not dealing with your normal, "kite is over powered and I think I might activate my safety, just incase." We're dealing with a seriously OVER POWERED kite that is beyond anything you can imagine, behaving in ways you would never expect or anticipate.
Please take the intent of the message. Protect yourself with companies that have liability coverage, much like using insured contractors on your home and doctors with mal-practice insurance. Accidents happen, the company you're dealing with should care about you enough that they protect themselves and you. |
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Lurk
Since 04 Apr 2009
355 Posts
Obsessed
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Sun Dec 29, 13 9:33 pm |
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Well said Lloyd. |
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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
4304 Posts
Camas
Site Lackey
CGKA Member
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Mon Dec 30, 13 2:26 am |
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lloyd wrote: |
If you are confident as to your reaction time of activating the safety, instead of attaching your lines to your kite, tie them to the bumper of your car. Have your friend drive off as fast as he can across a gravel parking lot. Try to reach the safety, bet you can't. The initial jerk of the kite almost folds your body in half backwards. Once your body hits the ground and you're being drug face down, counting the bones as they break, there's no way of activating the safety. Your hands are too busy protecting your face and skull. Besides, to put your hands between you and the fast moving rocks below you would for sure shred them beyond recognition. If you're lucky enough to be alive, let alone conscious, before the kite starts another loop, you might be able to activate your safety. It happens fast, I'm telling you. Faster than anything you can imagine. Unless you've experienced it, please save your assumptive comments for someone else. Very few people live to tell the story I have. We are not dealing with your normal, "kite is over powered and I think I might activate my safety, just incase." We're dealing with a seriously OVER POWERED kite that is beyond anything you can imagine, behaving in ways you would never expect or anticipate.
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Damn it. I really need to get the KiteRelease into production somehow. It does an outstanding job of preventing accidents just like this. I've been using it for years; it's hard for me to imagine kiting without it. (No donkey dick and automated release during launching and landing.) |
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Jonpnw

Since 22 Jul 2010
1327 Posts
Pacific Northwest
XTreme Poster
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Mon Dec 30, 13 9:31 am Kickstarter? |
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[/quote]Damn it. I really need to get the KiteRelease into production somehow[quote]
Nak, I vaguely remember your device. Would a kickstarter fund raiser work ? _________________ Slingshot | Ride Engine |Try before you buy | PM me
Join the Columbia Gorge Water Sports Association. http://gorgewindsurfing.org/ |
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Da Yoda
Since 12 Mar 2009
79 Posts
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Mon Dec 30, 13 10:34 am |
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I'm shocked to learn that Caution is not insured. I figured that if you're operating a business in CA (one of the top sue-happy states) it would be nearly insane to not have liability insurance especially if you're selling products that could maim or kill you if they're not engineered correctly. I thought it was pretty much mandatory to be in a business like this. Crazy! |
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bwd

Since 04 Aug 2007
385 Posts
Obsessed
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Mon Dec 30, 13 11:34 am |
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Quote: | You seem to be stuck on this pre-flight thing. |
Well, yes, I am.
It's helped keep me alive for 10 years and counting,
along with pre-launch risk analysis including weather, wind and water conditions, other traffic on the water,
and no doubt a little luck here and there, etc.
Ever heard the saying, "if you want something done right, do it?"
Applies pretty well to kiting.
There's a lot you can't control, so you control what you can.
Anyway sorry if I sounded like a jerk to you.
Actually I can empathize and hope things go well for you of course.
re: nak's release, sounds good to me. |
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dwaynej

Since 09 Sep 2013
207 Posts
Stoked
CGKA Member
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Mon Dec 30, 13 3:50 pm |
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I am thankful this information was shared and it never occurred to me that an incorrect sized bridal system could be installed on a kite. Certainly gives me pause to consider this when unpacking a new kite for the first time. I cannot see how this could have been uncovered during a pre flight as the bridal is integral part of the kite.
For now on... New Kite = Check Bridal.
By the by, kite company should have had liability insurance for this exact reason. I also believe the bridal system should have been constructed in such a way that its major moving pieces are universal across kite sizes. |
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Jonpnw

Since 22 Jul 2010
1327 Posts
Pacific Northwest
XTreme Poster
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Mon Dec 30, 13 6:32 pm ? |
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dwaynej. serious question, i am not trying to be a sm$rt @ss. But how will you check the bridle?
Do kite manufacturers provide a spec sheet with the measurements? The few times I have had a brand new kite , I was so stoked to pump that thing up and ride. The last thing that crossed my mind was stop and measure the bridles.
This is a very interesting topic though. When you buy a car, you know it has been driven a few miles already.
What about paraglider / speed wings / parachutes ? How are they tested prior to their maiden voyage ? _________________ Slingshot | Ride Engine |Try before you buy | PM me
Join the Columbia Gorge Water Sports Association. http://gorgewindsurfing.org/ |
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PDXF
Since 10 Sep 2008
116 Posts
Stoked
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Mon Dec 30, 13 8:48 pm |
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I've read this whole post and keep thinking, besides the kite not coming with the proper bridal, that there was a preponderance of operator error. You indicated it felt like it had a lot more power than you expected the week prior to your accident and you still SELF LAUNCHED AT ROWENA. I'm sorry for your pain and suffering but you already had a sense of something not right with the kite... it is kinda like, after you just had it serviced at Oil Can Henry's, driving your car to Idaho with the oil can dash light on and expect Oil Can Henry's to replace your car because they forgot to add oil... Just sayin
But I will keep this issue in mind when I fly a new kite.
Oh, and Mike, get some GOOD insurance and hide your assets if you plan on manufacturing a safety device. |
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dwaynej

Since 09 Sep 2013
207 Posts
Stoked
CGKA Member
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Tue Dec 31, 13 1:44 am Re: ? |
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Jonpnw wrote: | dwaynej. serious question, i am not trying to be a sm$rt @ss. But how will you check the bridle?
What about paraglider / speed wings / parachutes ? How are they tested prior to their maiden voyage ? |
On my switchblades, the bridle components appear to be manufactured with labels attached. I need to check the detail on them...
http://www.cabrinhakites.com/switchblade-2014-spare-parts.html
If there is no distinguishing information, it all comes down to a flight test in mild conditions.
My hang gliders were definitely flight tested before delivery. If you subscribe to the Wills Wing Facebook page, you receive flight test updates. That being said, I did receive one glider with a turn in it that I could not tune out and ended up receiving a replacement sail (not wills wing).
Dwayne. |
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daveS
Since 23 Jul 2007
104 Posts
Stoked
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Tue Dec 31, 13 8:38 am |
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I have to agree with PDXF here a little. IMO self-launching with rocks or any solid object downwind of you is high risk and probably not defendable as reasonable kiting risk in a courtroom. Not preaching as I've done it and caused myself significant injury in the process. Even an assisted launch at Rowena while standing on shore is a roll of the dice. |
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lloyd
Since 16 Aug 2007
108 Posts
Hood River
Stoked
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Tue Dec 31, 13 8:53 am |
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I figure we all have a responsibility to look out for one another. I've contemplated for 9 months as to post something about this. I hate to bad mouth a specific brand and open myself up to judgement. But.....if my post provoked thought and discussion about something never before acknowledged, whether it be design, manufacture, use or individual responsibility, then I consider this post to be a good thing, even at the expense of being judged. As mentioned in a previous reply, some manufactures do tag / label the individual components of the bridal and line system. Not a bad idea in my mind. Gives you something to validate whether things are put together correctly. Also, if you are buying multiple kites of the same year and type, you can pump them up and lay them next to one another. Visually look things over and ask do the incremental changes in bridal lengths between the sizes make sense? That's how I found the problem with my 8m. When it was next to my 10m of the same year, the longer bridal, comparatively, on the 8m became noticeable. Without other sizes of the same kite to compare to, I don't know how you would know. |
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kss

Since 24 Apr 2006
614 Posts
pdx
Addicted
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Tue Dec 31, 13 9:28 am |
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Thanks for your post and responses lloyd. Definitely one of the most valuable posts in a couple years. Fact is if you are in a sport long enough accidents/manufacturer defects are gonna come no matter how careful or cautious you are. Wish you the best man and sorry your getting stuck with a 65k mistake. |
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Lurk
Since 04 Apr 2009
355 Posts
Obsessed
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Tue Dec 31, 13 12:44 pm |
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How eaxctly is someone supposed to figure out if a bridal is wrong without flying the kite? Ever have to replace a line segment in a bridal? Measurments have to be exact or the kite flys like crap.
And what about a new properly trained, BUT inexpierenced kiter? Wouldn't have to be a Rowena launch to get f'd up. |
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WindSki

Since 14 Dec 2012
411 Posts
Portland
Obsessed
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Tue Dec 31, 13 3:28 pm |
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One important point with this post is that IIoyd posted !!!!
We must keep posting our experiences even if people disagree with some or all items.
With our sport is always good to review, reflect and debate safety issues, even disagree with one another for these discussions keep safety and our actions at the forefront. This prevents complacency !!! And personally complacency is my number one recurring problem. It's easy to become lazy and not follow a check off list, not fully follow safety procedures. Let's not become complacent and support IIoyd even if we feel he is full of shit . Just joking on this last part thanks for the post IIoyd |
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kenja

Since 19 Jun 2008
179 Posts
Stoked
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Tue Dec 31, 13 4:29 pm |
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I doubt I'll ever try to measure my new kites against mfg specs. It's really not feasible as I don't think anyone really publishes this specs. I'll just keep buying reputable brands and be careful on the first launch. I always mentally run through what I'll do if the kite goes crazy on take-off and usually have one hand on the safety until I am confident all seems normal.
Also, I would never self-launch at Rowena without an anchor. If things do go wrong, they go wrong fast. Better that my anchor gets ripped out than me getting yarded. |
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tamirpdx
Since 25 Mar 2009
14 Posts
portland
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Wed Jan 01, 14 3:46 pm Thanks for sharing |
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I got two new kites (envy). After reading your post I'll make sure to test flight them in a safe environment before using them anywhere else. |
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