Before you buy new gear, something to think about

lloyd · Since 16 Aug 2007 108 Posts Hood River Stoked

Hey BWD. You seem to be stuck on this pre-flight thing. When I said earlier that I had checked the gear out, I meant it. The purpose of the story was not to debate my minute by minute actions and I purposefully didn't go in to the details. If you are so diligent with your pre-flight checks, then I'm sure you'll have no problem posting the exact lengths for all of the bridals on your kites. Furthermore, I'm sure you can provide us with the amount of stretch each line incurs during each use. There is a reasonable amount of effort a person should be expected to perform. Validating bridals lengths, in my opinion, is outside the norm of a pre-flight check. I know of no one who has ever verified the length of the bridals before flight. Although, I do now..........

I never said my self launch at Rowena was the first time I flew the kite. I did fly it in extremely light winds on the sand bar the week before. It did feel more powerful than I was expecting, and figured it was a line setting/attachment point on the kite. I had the kite set on all of the middle knots. The day of the accident, knowing that previously the kite felt strong, I rigged it on all of the last / most depowered settings. As mentioned before, it was 18"-22" too long. No amount of adjustment anywhere in the system would make up for that amount.

If you are confident as to your reaction time of activating the safety, instead of attaching your lines to your kite, tie them to the bumper of your car. Have your friend drive off as fast as he can across a gravel parking lot. Try to reach the safety, bet you can't. The initial jerk of the kite almost folds your body in half backwards. Once your body hits the ground and you're being drug face down, counting the bones as they break, there's no way of activating the safety. Your hands are too busy protecting your face and skull. Besides, to put your hands between you and the fast moving rocks below you would for sure shred them beyond recognition. If you're lucky enough to be alive, let alone conscious, before the kite starts another loop, you might be able to activate your safety. It happens fast, I'm telling you. Faster than anything you can imagine. Unless you've experienced it, please save your assumptive comments for someone else. Very few people live to tell the story I have. We are not dealing with your normal, "kite is over powered and I think I might activate my safety, just incase." We're dealing with a seriously OVER POWERED kite that is beyond anything you can imagine, behaving in ways you would never expect or anticipate.

Please take the intent of the message. Protect yourself with companies that have liability coverage, much like using insured contractors on your home and doctors with mal-practice insurance. Accidents happen, the company you're dealing with should care about you enough that they protect themselves and you.

Lurk · Since 04 Apr 2009 355 Posts Obsessed

Well said Lloyd.

Nak · Mon Dec 30, 13 2:26 am

Jonpnw · Mon Dec 30, 13 9:31 am **Kickstarter?**

[/quote]Damn it. I really need to get the KiteRelease into production somehow[quote]

Nak, I vaguely remember your device. Would a kickstarter fund raiser work ?

Da Yoda · Since 12 Mar 2009 79 Posts

I'm shocked to learn that Caution is not insured. I figured that if you're operating a business in CA (one of the top sue-happy states) it would be nearly insane to not have liability insurance especially if you're selling products that could maim or kill you if they're not engineered correctly. I thought it was pretty much mandatory to be in a business like this. Crazy!

bwd · Since 04 Aug 2007 385 Posts Obsessed

dwaynej · Since 09 Sep 2013 207 Posts Stoked **CGKA Member**

I am thankful this information was shared and it never occurred to me that an incorrect sized bridal system could be installed on a kite. Certainly gives me pause to consider this when unpacking a new kite for the first time. I cannot see how this could have been uncovered during a pre flight as the bridal is integral part of the kite.

For now on... New Kite = Check Bridal.

By the by, kite company should have had liability insurance for this exact reason. I also believe the bridal system should have been constructed in such a way that its major moving pieces are universal across kite sizes.

Jonpnw · Mon Dec 30, 13 6:32 pm ?

dwaynej. serious question, i am not trying to be a sm$rt @ss. But how will you check the bridle?

Do kite manufacturers provide a spec sheet with the measurements? The few times I have had a brand new kite , I was so stoked to pump that thing up and ride. The last thing that crossed my mind was stop and measure the bridles.

This is a very interesting topic though. When you buy a car, you know it has been driven a few miles already.

What about paraglider / speed wings / parachutes ? How are they tested prior to their maiden voyage ?

PDXF · Since 10 Sep 2008 116 Posts Stoked

I've read this whole post and keep thinking, besides the kite not coming with the proper bridal, that there was a preponderance of operator error. You indicated it felt like it had a lot more power than you expected the week prior to your accident and you still SELF LAUNCHED AT ROWENA. I'm sorry for your pain and suffering but you already had a sense of something not right with the kite... it is kinda like, after you just had it serviced at Oil Can Henry's, driving your car to Idaho with the oil can dash light on and expect Oil Can Henry's to replace your car because they forgot to add oil... Just sayin
But I will keep this issue in mind when I fly a new kite.
Oh, and Mike, get some GOOD insurance and hide your assets if you plan on manufacturing a safety device.

dwaynej · Since 09 Sep 2013 207 Posts Stoked **CGKA Member**

daveS · Since 23 Jul 2007 104 Posts Stoked

I have to agree with PDXF here a little. IMO self-launching with rocks or any solid object downwind of you is high risk and probably not defendable as reasonable kiting risk in a courtroom. Not preaching as I've done it and caused myself significant injury in the process. Even an assisted launch at Rowena while standing on shore is a roll of the dice.

lloyd · Since 16 Aug 2007 108 Posts Hood River Stoked

I figure we all have a responsibility to look out for one another. I've contemplated for 9 months as to post something about this. I hate to bad mouth a specific brand and open myself up to judgement. But.....if my post provoked thought and discussion about something never before acknowledged, whether it be design, manufacture, use or individual responsibility, then I consider this post to be a good thing, even at the expense of being judged. As mentioned in a previous reply, some manufactures do tag / label the individual components of the bridal and line system. Not a bad idea in my mind. Gives you something to validate whether things are put together correctly. Also, if you are buying multiple kites of the same year and type, you can pump them up and lay them next to one another. Visually look things over and ask do the incremental changes in bridal lengths between the sizes make sense? That's how I found the problem with my 8m. When it was next to my 10m of the same year, the longer bridal, comparatively, on the 8m became noticeable. Without other sizes of the same kite to compare to, I don't know how you would know.

kss · Since 24 Apr 2006 614 Posts pdx Addicted

Thanks for your post and responses lloyd. Definitely one of the most valuable posts in a couple years. Fact is if you are in a sport long enough accidents/manufacturer defects are gonna come no matter how careful or cautious you are. Wish you the best man and sorry your getting stuck with a 65k mistake.

Lurk · Since 04 Apr 2009 355 Posts Obsessed

How eaxctly is someone supposed to figure out if a bridal is wrong without flying the kite? Ever have to replace a line segment in a bridal? Measurments have to be exact or the kite flys like crap.

And what about a new properly trained, BUT inexpierenced kiter? Wouldn't have to be a Rowena launch to get f'd up.

WindSki · Since 14 Dec 2012 411 Posts Portland Obsessed

One important point with this post is that IIoyd posted !!!!
We must keep posting our experiences even if people disagree with some or all items.
With our sport is always good to review, reflect and debate safety issues, even disagree with one another for these discussions keep safety and our actions at the forefront. This prevents complacency !!! And personally complacency is my number one recurring problem. It's easy to become lazy and not follow a check off list, not fully follow safety procedures. Let's not become complacent and support IIoyd even if we feel he is full of shit . Just joking on this last part  thanks for the post IIoyd

kenja · Since 19 Jun 2008 179 Posts Stoked

I doubt I'll ever try to measure my new kites against mfg specs. It's really not feasible as I don't think anyone really publishes this specs. I'll just keep buying reputable brands and be careful on the first launch. I always mentally run through what I'll do if the kite goes crazy on take-off and usually have one hand on the safety until I am confident all seems normal.

Also, I would never self-launch at Rowena without an anchor. If things do go wrong, they go wrong fast. Better that my anchor gets ripped out than me getting yarded.

tamirpdx · Since 25 Mar 2009 14 Posts portland

I got two new kites (envy). After reading your post I'll make sure to test flight them in a safe environment before using them anywhere else.