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Hein
Since 08 Mar 2005
1314 Posts
Possessed
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 Fri Jun 07, 13 6:26 pm Why aren't the wind machines turning? |
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Went out to Rufus for an late afternoon session.
Plenty of wind and not a single wind turbine running.
What gives? Did they run out of subsidy? Too many
bald eagles getting munched? Maybe they got coal
dust in the bearings. |
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registered
Since 12 Jul 2005
1319 Posts
tsunami
Sandbagger
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| Fri Jun 07, 13 6:33 pm |
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think they lock out in too much ,wind safety ect.
and yes save it for later use ,reduce the carbon footprint of the whirlyplant. |
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pollywog
Since 07 Aug 2009
291 Posts
Obsessed
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| Fri Jun 07, 13 8:45 pm |
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Cuz there is, at whatever time they are not running, enough power on the grid. Supply is equaling demand.
Wind turbines get turned off when demand is being met by other forms.
It's not efficient to store large qtys of power on batteries...
It's all about money.
_________________
Gun control means hitting the bulls eye... |
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moondog
Since 15 Aug 2007
706 Posts
white salmon
Addicted
CGKA Member
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| Fri Jun 07, 13 9:02 pm |
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This time of the year the hydro-electric takes care of all of the energy needs. When Calif. needs more A/C the windmills start spinning.
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moondog |
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Hein
Since 08 Mar 2005
1314 Posts
Possessed
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| Fri Jun 07, 13 9:27 pm |
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| registered wrote: | think they lock out in too much ,wind safety ect.
and yes save it for later use ,reduce the carbon footprint of the whirlyplant. |
I guess it was kind of windy. But I've seen them run in the same wind. I can understand that they don't want to damage them. My apologies if that was the case. I'm not against green energy, I just prefer it to viable without assistance.
So when there is no need on the grid, couldn't they use the power to pump some of the water back upstream? That would be storing if for later use, wouldn't it?
Decent (lit) session, anyways. |
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MikeZ
Since 17 Jul 2012
207 Posts
Beaverton / Seaside / Govy
Stoked
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| Sat Jun 08, 13 12:17 pm Re: Why aren't the wind machines turning? |
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| Hein wrote: | Went out to Rufus for an late afternoon session.
Plenty of wind and not a single wind turbine running.
What gives? Did they run out of subsidy? Too many
bald eagles getting munched? Maybe they got coal
dust in the bearings. |
Dude, I don't know how long you were looking, or at which turbines, but over the BPA region, they were producing a lot of energy:
http://transmission.bpa.gov/business/operations/wind/baltwg.aspx
The BPA has about 4500 MW of wind generation facilities within its boundaries, and pretty much all day yesterday they were producing over 3000 MW, probably averaging 3800.
That sharp drop (and then rise later) in the afternoon looks suggestive that the BPA curtailed wind generation to allow them to spill extra water, or for other operational constraints. It might be that the turbines you saw were some of those. |
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bwd
Since 04 Aug 2007
385 Posts
Obsessed
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| Sat Jun 08, 13 7:08 pm |
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Errr, old chap,
erm, could you just possibly,
maybe,
make that graph look just a,
a wee bit,
just a little more like a
hockey stick?
cheers!
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jaksavage
Since 02 Dec 2009
216 Posts
hood river
Stoked
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| Sun Jun 09, 13 9:33 am Subsides |
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Oil receives around seven times more subsides than alt energy, per kw. I agree get rid of the subsides, alt energy would pay off faster. Pumping water uphill is being considered but is hugely expensive and some folks hate to pay a nickel more in taxes.
I wish the answers were easy. |
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registered
Since 12 Jul 2005
1319 Posts
tsunami
Sandbagger
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| Sun Jun 09, 13 11:19 am |
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one pays off while still having energy production the other is burned off and gone....
7 times the subs. aka real world tax breaks, tell me where that figure is from sounds like a good read.
one came natural from earth , both hammer the earth to be up and running, tough to pick winners. dams and wind seem like a good fit in these parts , energy should be delt wth locally ,effecting the locals and decided by local nimby hypocrites to live by.
choose and use |
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macgruber
Since 06 Dec 2011
490 Posts
SE PDX volcano
Obsessed
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| Sun Jun 09, 13 12:41 pm Goldendale resevoir battery |
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| Last year there was the beginnings of a plan to pump water up to Goldendale using excess wind power and then use turbines to make electricity when it was allowed to flow back downhill--essentially a water battery. The water rites were from a defunct aluminum smelter around Goldendale and Klickitat PUD was sponsoring it. Haven't heard anything about it since, but sounds workable. |
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registered
Since 12 Jul 2005
1319 Posts
tsunami
Sandbagger
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| Sun Jun 09, 13 4:10 pm |
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I always wondered how many of baby jesus's innocent flora and fauna are unjustly effected by these things  flooding for reserve power ,coal , windmills, dams ,all for little johnny not having... :roll
: should have been at Newport today.... |
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shred_da_gorge
Since 12 Nov 2008
1342 Posts
Da Hood & Da Wood
XTreme Poster
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| Sun Jun 09, 13 8:14 pm |
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BPA received a chunk of Obama's stimulus package when he first came to office, which was about when those windmills went online. (I'm sure I'm not the only one on here who witnessed years of seeing those trucks with the Chinese windmill parts on I-84). I remember the problem when they got them up and running was that the T-lines couldn't handle the surplus of energy, and it was coming from at least three different sources in the same geographical area (the Boardman plant, dams, and the windmills).
One of my cycling buddies took a BPA Project Manager position as part of that stimulus, and they were going about trying to design a new T-line topology that would de-centralize power, partly for national security reasons (and partly to extend where it could be sold - yes, primarily to California).
When I moved from Hood River to Silicon Valley I chose to buy a house in Santa Clara because it's a 'full service' city - we have our own electric company with significantly lower rates and wind and solar options located in eastern California. Neighboring cities here rely on PG&E buying power through BPA (and others) with higher transmission costs. I personally think localized power generation is the way to go, but unfortunately there are powerful lobbies at play that stand to lose money with that kind of competition. I'm about to finish a 3kW solar installation on my roof that would probably serve most of my needs if I could store it, but the state of California deems that "unsafe" - technically I don't see why but politically I do - so I'm forced to net-meter. Got to love the "free market" democracy! |
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pdxmonkeyboy
Since 16 May 2006
6081 Posts
forever labled as the
retired kiter & motorhead Unicorn Master
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shred_da_gorge
Since 12 Nov 2008
1342 Posts
Da Hood & Da Wood
XTreme Poster
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| Mon Jun 10, 13 9:28 am |
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| pdxmonkeyboy wrote: | | Chinese wind mills? You mean Vestas? The company that provides jobs to thousands of Oregonians? |
Yes Vestas, the Danish company I used to trade stock in who builds windmills in China to be shipped by boat and truck to eastern Oregon in factories probably powered by coal that will be shipped through Hood River. The world is full of irony.  |
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registered
Since 12 Jul 2005
1319 Posts
tsunami
Sandbagger
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| Mon Jun 10, 13 4:33 pm |
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| 6 degrees |
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pdxmonkeyboy
Since 16 May 2006
6081 Posts
forever labled as the
retired kiter & motorhead Unicorn Master
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| Tue Jun 11, 13 12:05 am |
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Ohhh I see the Chinese Danish. Vestas has manufacturing facilities in Denmark, Germany, India, Italy, Romania, Britain, Spain, Sweden, Norway, Australia, China, and the United States. I too own their stock.
Do you know for sure that the windmill parts landing in Vancouver are from china?
_________________
Bury me standing cause I won't lay down!!
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shred_da_gorge
Since 12 Nov 2008
1342 Posts
Da Hood & Da Wood
XTreme Poster
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| Sat Jun 15, 13 8:17 pm |
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| pdxmonkeyboy wrote: | | Do you know for sure that the windmill parts landing in Vancouver are from china? |
I believe so, after many years of watching hundreds (thousands?) of trucks roll by with large windmill parts that say "Made in China" on the side of them in large letters (Wenzhou, IIRC). No lie.
You could probably do more in-depth research than my anecdotal evidence, and I haven't owned/followed Vestas in many, many years (are they traded on a US market now?). I probably would have done better to hold onto them but I made decent gains many years ago. I learned about them after seeing a single windmill in Hull, Mass., and learning that it required very little wind to produce a decent amount of energy. Late 80's/early 90's.
Not passing judgement, btw - I ride some pretty sweet Chinese road bikes. I've got a story I could tell you offline sometime where we tried to maintain US manufacture but ultimately had to bring systems to China to stay in business. Still grew the number of Oregonians we employed though (fortunately).
Back to OT, another reason we see windmills that aren't turning sometimes are to strategically minimize maintenance intervals when the overall demand is not present. That one I know for sure. 
Cheers! |
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