HELP, Kite Emergency! Help the Jackson Hole Kiters

pdxmonkeyboy · Sat Jun 09, 12 5:59 pm

Signed. I once saw a video of a guy lighting his toilet water on fire from all the gas that was leaking into the ground water from nearby fraking.

Its incredibly short sighted to engage in such activity. I mean really? Messing with subsurface rock structure that the water table depends on... just doesn't seem like a great idea.

knewschool · Since 23 Dec 2010 61 Posts Wyoming

Thanks again for the support guys.

As far as this "double edged sword" business, I agree with that perspective to a certain point. But in this case I think more harm than good is likely. The proposed 136 gas wells are not oil but natural gas for wich there is arguably an abundance. I actually do not directly use natural gas therby avoiding hypocracy. My home is powered entirely by electricity which is supplied by Lower Valley Electric. Palisades Dam is the hydroelectric power supply for that, and my local catabatic wind kite spot. I live within walking distance from work and try to carpool as much as possible for my wind sports. There's always room for improvement but I do what I can for now.

A gas field worker from Cora, Wy bought a raft from our shop last year. He said that he and his family have worked those kind of wells their entire lives 5 generations thick. He says that Bondurant is the last place we should pump 1.3 to 5 million gallons of fracking fluid into the earth. Per well. If we were at WW3 and desparate to save our population on the brink, then maybe we should consider it. Otherwise, we risk poluting the cleanest waterway in the country at it's source.

The Hoback river is a Nationally designated Wild and Scenic River and meets up with the Snake River just past the Tetons. You'd think drilling in the National Forest above a Wild and Scenic River would be easier to stop. I really do think if this passes, it will open the gates to more problems.

Thanks, Again - Will Taggart

pjc · Since 06 Mar 2005 649 Posts Addicted

ecameron · Since 29 Jul 2009 90 Posts PDX

I once saw a video of a guy that went to college to learn how geochemisty and hydrology work. That guy wasn't watching videos himself, he was actually studying and learning.

Pretty sure pdxmkyboy has a degree somewhat along these lines.

PDX, what is your exact degree in? Maybe you can clear up some issues on this.

Then again, maybe he's the kind of guy who assumes things.....

i did sign this by the way, like weeks ago. JH rocks. Air Force.

ecameron · Since 29 Jul 2009 90 Posts PDX

Lovelock started working for Shell in 1963, having regular monthly meetings with the Shell boss Lord Rothschild. He states in Homage to Gaia: 'My experiences with Shell left me firmly with the impression that they are neither stupid nor villains. On the contrary I know of no other human agency that plans as far ahead or considers the environment more closely'
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=James_Lovelock

Hmmm. Last one on this.

pjc · Since 06 Mar 2005 649 Posts Addicted

by all means, let's hear from some mid-level beuaracrat with zero fracking and horizontal drilling experience.

that nobel prize winner steven chu (obama's energy secretary, also endorses fracking) --- he's not a good source of scientific info at all.

at any rate, i know plenty of families putting food on the table thanks to fracking. people have been pulling silly stunts trying to blame their groundwater well problems on their neighbors drilling/farming/septic-system for years. saw those silly games when i was a kid. always fun seeing adults come to blows over the "your swimming pool wrecked my water well" debate. thats why i don't own a groundwater well and pay my money to get my water filtered from the local govt agency. (they're good at it)

whatevers, slag on american ingenuity all you want, it's a fun game for some.

btw - your kite is made from natural gas. your goretex ski jacket too. gas is a principal feedstock for the petrochemical biz.

ecameron · Since 29 Jul 2009 90 Posts PDX

Shell is Dutch. Lovelock's a Brit. Lord Rothschild, well he's bigger than any country anywhere. Check out the pictures of the Pope's funeral.

This has nothing to do with America. Except they want us to do it here, check out Nigeria and how it dwarfs the gulf issue.

I appreciate the people who work on the groundfloor, but at what cost.

knewschool · Since 23 Dec 2010 61 Posts Wyoming

You can argue all you want to the tune of natural gas not polluting ground water. But I have seen the problems in Pavillion, Wyoming with my own eyes, and you're welcome to research "scientifically" that areas problems and what caused it. I also have seen the proximity of the gas fields that have caused the problems for the area. The famous flammable tap water is from this very area. Scientifically speaking, extreme water pollution is undoubtedly possible from fracking.

I read that article about Lovelock, and they don't address strategies in drill sites. I had a hard time finding the relevance. I think even Lovelock would understand the concept of hydraulic fracking in the right places, and to drill the more potentially destructive places as a last resort.

My suggestion to sign this petition is in no way against hydraulic fracking or Natural Gas production. I actually appreciate it as a solution to keep our fuel consumptions broad. Just like veggie fuel is a solution, but for no more than 7% of the population or whatever it is these days. Don't want all your eggs in one basket.

I'm actually pretty comfortable with frack water myself and kitesurfed in Pilot Butte resevoir which is next to Pavillion, Wy. Big Sandy, Wyoming is in the midst of the gas fields and we drive right by them all the the time. I'm sure frack overflow has seeped into ol' Big Sandy as well. You can see wells just above the Big Sandy River leading right into the resevoir. I'm not scared of the frack. We call Max my dog the fracknest monster and every time I botch a handlepass, the water go's right up my nose.

My concern is to risk water tables in less crucial areas first, and put responsibility on the mega corporations to show that this is where we MUST drill. The vastness of the Wyoming desert still offers so many possible drill sites that I can't see Bondurant making any sense. And it is certainly at the top of the water table leading out the ocean through the Columbia River Gorge.

pjc · Since 06 Mar 2005 649 Posts Addicted

Sure, not everything ought to be fracked. Fracking is not zero % risk (nothing is zero % risk)

My beef is two things. "I watched some guy set his toilet on fire from fracking". That's BS, some movie stunt. That's not science.

Second, this whole idea of "the lower half is wild and scenic, so you can't do X in the upper half". Why do you think the lower half is wild and scenic, but not the upper? Because not everyone loves to hug trees, and some folks pushed back against the wild and scenic, so they split it up. Not much of a compromise if a couple years down the road they say "hey, leave the upper half alone, you can't do stuff there for fear of contanimating the lower half".

You agreed to split it up a few yeas back ....you're ok with trashing your reputation about this?

They call them wild and scenic rivers, not wild and scenic watersheds. Now, let's say we try to make the Siuslaw wild and scenic, you think the folks that run motorboats on Lake Creek tributary are going to go along? Nope, Lake Creek flows into the Siuslaw. There is now a precedent of people using wild and scenic status lower in the watershed to exert defacto control over the rest of the watershed. Not good for folks trying to negotiate a compromise in the future.

Whatever, do what you want. If they were drilling near my playground I'd be steamed too, especially if I wasn't cashing royalty checks myself.

Just FYI, this stuff isn't so simple as it appears. People are going to look at what happens here and extrapolate to similar issues down the road. Don't be surprised if wild and scenic status designations become more contoversial and harder to enact, as people set the pattern of using them to leverage control over the rest of the watershed.