Back to the sliding spreader chatter

DROCK999 · Since 31 May 2007 852 Posts Left Coast Opinionated

hardly, took me 10 min to make. I had been running just the rope and connecting my chicken loop to that and then Brave Dave hooked me up with the shackle which is releasable.

kitezilla · Since 22 Jun 2006 453 Posts gorge Obsessed

Sorry for the long post... only those interested in the subject need bother...

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Below is a post from a KF thread on the subject:

http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2362640

Here are some pictures of my original experimentation with a sliding rope bar, and also, a picture of the simplist rendition of the idea. The safety release snaps directly into the ring on the rope, and avoids the use of a chicken loop altogether. If a person never unhooks, and has a "long throw" bar ( ie. Crossbow), and short arms... this is a very good combination, solving a bunch of problems.

Many ways to "skin a cat"...best to use the KISS principle.

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...."I have been playing around with the sliding hook idea for about a year now, in anticipation of buying the real item...and trying to decide what characteristics I want in my final set-up.

I have pretty much decided that I like the overall concept of the 'sliding hook'. I won't get into all the personal details of what I want and why I want such characteristics, relating to such things as 'length of throw', 'hook stickiness', 'range of the slide'; 'bulkiness', 'weight', 'ease of repair', etc. Everybody, it seems, has a very individual set of requirements. For instance, you can see from my pictures, that I want a very short rope on my bar...compared to a previous forum participant, who, for various reasons, wanted a very long rope on his bar. I snap the Cabrinha mushroom safety directly onto the main ring of the swivel, and shackle my kite safety leash onto the little ring...allowing me a very long "throw" and the ability to spin the bar."

But concerning those who want the ability to "fix the hook" in the central position, preventing it from sliding...here is a suggestion that you may want to consider, and hopefully improve on. The 2 pictures are self explanatory, and show my solution to the issue. My set-up allows me to "on the fly" (1) Limit the travel of the hook...(2) Fix the hook in the central location...(3) Release the hook to slide freely. I tried different "stoppers" but found the Naish stopper to be the best...and also, that the little piece of string, which I slide up against the Naish stopper, keeps the Naish stopper from 'creeping'. I like to 'fix the hook' when trying new moves, and then allow it to slide when riding toeside, walking the kite into the water, etc.

On a different note, I have found that the lack of a pulley is not a problem, and also, that in about 9 months of use, the wear on the double rope is negligible."

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This is from another post on KF, on the same subject:

http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2362640

"For about a year now, I have been using a tinkered up sliding spreader bar, just because I like to experiment. I think that eventually, I will buy the real thing, because they just keep getting better and better.

With any sliding spreader bar, I would guess that you will have a few odd things happen for the first few sessions...but the one thing I found absolutely no difference from using a fixed hook, ...was in straight-up jumping. I don't do any massive "load and pop" monster move, as I leave the water, so I can't say whether or not, under such conditions, that the hook might slide a little, killing some of the force that the rider wants to use in throwing himself off the water. It could be that the sliding hook might work to the advantage of a powerful kiter, in allowing him to lean over even further and load up even more powerfully.

For simple tricks in the air, like back rolls and air jibes, I didn't notice any difference either... but I'm not a real trickster. Hopefully, a real trickster will comment on doing trickier tricks.

While in the air, as long as I keep one hand on the bar, I haven't noticed that the hook significantly moved.

The one place I noticed a huge difference, and I noticed it even before I got in the water with the kite, was running on the beach with the kite in the air. I loved the bar, even before I got in the water! I didn't have to do that standard twisty, bouncing, torqued, knee twisting thing that I always had to do to walk-run to the waters edge. I just walked like a normal human being in a straight line, keeping the kite under perfect control...If something goes wrong, like dealing with a strong puff, while walking to the water, you find that your body is already in a "tug-of-war" position, and can deal with the added force, without loosing your balance. It was the same nice feeling I got, on first launching a SLE kite, after years of dealing with "C" kites, when I walked the SLE toward the water and felt the wonderful control that the smooth depower of the SLE kite gave me.

I also liked the feeling the bar gave me when body dragging back to my board. It seemed like I took in less water. I would be interested in other's opinions on this aspect of sliding bars.

The only somewhat shocking surprise I received, on first using the bar, was, when someone came up behind me and yelled something that made me look back at him. The motion of turning the head and the principle that "turn the head and the body will follow", made the hook, unexpectedly, and as soon as my hips turned a little, slide all the way over to the other side of the bar, and threw me a little off balance. I didn't even come close to falling or catching an edge, but it surprised me, nevertheless. So, you can expect this sort of thing to be part of the 'learning curve'. The fact that you now have the ability to control the position of the hook, means that you must now learn how to control the hook. After a few sessions, the lower reptilian part of your brain will take over, and you won't experience and "weirdness"."

nickdward · Since 11 Aug 2008 130 Posts Seattle Stoked

Here's another option...net cost: 5$

Just fix a piece of old depower rope around the ends of your normal spreader bar and hook your chickenloop around it....I looped the rope around the webbing straps. You can hook into your bar with the rope still attached for normal riding or unhook (to the rope) for the freedom to move around more.

I tried this out when I was doing several hour long downwinders. The downside is you can't truly unhook without triggering your quick release.

Normally I'll ride without this as I'd rather have the option to truly unhook when ripping a wave. This is great for riding toeside on long downwinders or if the wind/wave direction isnt great for unhooking (such as when riding upwind on a wave).

You get the freedom of movement of unhooking with the ability to still use your full range of depower

ldhr · Since 21 Jul 2009 1489 Posts Hood River XTreme Poster

chrissmack · Since 08 Jun 2005 526 Posts portland Addicted

smokey · Since 24 May 2005 49 Posts Portland, OR

Here's the spreader bar/ control bar setup I've been using:

I cut the hook off a Dakine bar and wrapped a couple of layers of duct tape around the center of the bar. I made a loop of amsteel and wrapped it around the center of the bar several times, finishing in a lark's head. The duct tape provides some grip so the amsteel doesn't slide sideways. I shackle into the loop, so obviously no unhooking with this setup. This setup effectively moves the pivot point much closer to your body, so the centerline pull has less torque over your torso. There's no sloppiness of the hook sliding back and forth. I find there is a significant improvement in rotational freedom. If you're goofy footed and into riding west coast waves, you owe it to yourself to try some sort of alternative spreader bar setup. It makes a huge difference in backside waveriding.

genek · Since 21 Jul 2006 2165 Posts East Po KGB

Kmun · Since 05 Jul 2009 265 Posts Obsessed

BTW: Working back to shore with a harness mashing your newly jagged ribs is humbling.

I've been riding the Pyro with a mini 6” sliding hook on the pyro webbing for about five years (windsurfing). But it is also stabilized by a ridged Fox motocross vest. (Five broken ribs in two different boom crashes). It worked great.

I use the same set up without the moto-vest rib plates for kiting. Problem: This year on a 5m day I tightened the webbing too tight (I think). A minor fall with a short one handed little body drag with an arched back flaring my rib cage enough to get the webbing below the “rack” of ribs then a little yank superior/ventral and VALLA!—OH--$#..T…Two more fractured ribs, lots of costal cartilage damage. More pain and much longer healing time (2 1/2 of the best months of the summer) than the first two fracture events I now feel better about using the ugly black diaper seat harness. Even now, the bar gets a bit close to the inferior ribs. But, with much less risk.

kitezilla · Since 22 Jun 2006 453 Posts gorge Obsessed

Smokey,

Have you considered putting a stainless steel welded ring on the end of the red spectra rope, so that the Wichard release shackle would have metal to metal contact, rather than metal to rope contact?

My understanding of the proper use of any kind of release shackle requires metal to metal contact, for the safest and most reliable ability to release under pressure.

Also, the shorter the rope, the better, for avoidance of any kind of rope tangle.

Another suggestion, along those lines, would be to place a short section of PVC tubing over the short section of rope, going to the ring. That would minimize the chance of a rope tangle or twist.

Not a big deal...if you have a hypothesis, stating that the way you have it is safer, or better for some reason...please share that with us...I have learned a lot on kite forums, and don't mind having my suggestions discussed and challenged.

smokey · Since 24 May 2005 49 Posts Portland, OR

Kitezilla-
You do bring up a good point. I have tested this system under load, by leaning out against a fixed post, and it does release cleanly. However I did find that the design of the shackle makes a significant difference in how well it releases. This particular Ronstan model has a smooth transition at the tip of the bail which allows the rope to slide off. I tried another model, also Ronstan, which resulted in the tip of the bail getting caught in the amsteel loop.

So in retrospect I agree a stainless ring on the amsteel loop should be a more reliable system. That said, any combination of hardware should be tested to make sure it releases cleanly. I do like a bit of length on the amsteel loop, 4-5 inches, so that the shackle is out in plain view away from my body, and easily located for quick release.

unbob · Since 31 Aug 2008 260 Posts 'da Gorge/LaV Obsessed

smokey · Since 24 May 2005 49 Posts Portland, OR

It's the first one you mentioned:
http://www.ronstan.com/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF6110
$42 from West Marine.

I use 1/4 inch amsteel for the loop. I was able to get a little over a season's worth of riding before it needed replacement. Whatever rope you use I would make sure it releases cleanly under load. Kitezilla's suggestion of adding a stainless ring to the loop is a good idea.

tpcramer · Since 26 Jul 2010 71 Posts