"Flex" and Sore Knee Question?

wylieflyote · Sat Dec 25, 10 7:50 pm **"Flex" and Sore Knee Question?**

I'm traveling to Mexico very soon and my good friend down there has a question about sore knees and kiting. He's looking for a board easier on the knees, that I might transport to him on my drive down:

<fcarrillot@hotmail.com> said:
>
> Kip, what is more flex, the Jaime set "medium flex" the X ride set "soft
> flex" Just I want to know what board has more Flex, I care of my knees,
> do you have one friend work in North Company right? can you ask them it?
> please amigo.

When I think about knee pain and kiteboarding, I always focus on the "rocker" design of the board. That is how much bend is in the board from front to back. I had a Ocean Rodeo Mako Wide that was perfect for knee pain. The bad part is that with more rocker the board doesn't jump as well. I've not considered flex too much.

Could someone please add comments?
Kip

windpig · Since 28 Aug 2008 282 Posts Obsessed

For a quick solution; I would try taking the fins off. I would also try different pads. I switched to Liquid force pads and removed the fins and it was night and day. Just a suggestion.

caps · Since 23 Dec 2010 347 Posts Obsessed

I switched to a board with lots of rocker- super soft landings. The cabrinha custom worked for me.

jackZ · Since 13 Apr 2008 355 Posts Devon Alberta ca. Obsessed

Hi ,
I have heard that having a duck stance on a snowboard can affect knees badly and is prone to give knee problems . ?!
I have been riding for 15 years duck and my knees have not yet failed . I ride with about ten degrees L and R . I have heard of it several times over the years . Anyway thats the stance on a kite board so maybe thats the part of the equation . some reading ;
http://snowboardaddicts.com/archive/index.php/t-594.html

I have a few boards and of them I find the Ocean Rodeo Mako with the concave bottom the best for absorbing shock of the chop . Actually noticeable if you switch in the middle of a sesh . I don't notice any problems jumping with it . I do notice it's a little more effort to ride upwind as compared to the Door but it was to be expected as thats what the Door is best at ! The mako has Concave and some Rocker , comparatively the Door is flatter .
I have a 159 Door and a 128 Rip and a big skim board and the 140 x40 Mako wide .
Good luck with the soft landings .
JackZ Smile

FlyDunes · Since 09 Oct 2007 1034 Posts Aloha XTreme Poster

go strapless

consumer · Since 28 Nov 2010 406 Posts banned Obsessed

Stance can drastically effect your sensation of soreness near your joints. I think a common "knee pain" is tight Iliotibial band syndrome which feels like you have sore knees or pain(sometimes sharp) on the lateral sides of your knees. A wide of a stance can cause this.

Sauve · Since 19 Mar 2009 97 Posts Hood River

get a board with some SHAPE! concave and rocker go a long way. bouncing on a flat piece of wood is gonna be rough on the rider more than a board thats designed to move through the water.
if you cant jump on a board w shape... you need more practice (like the rest of us) awwwww yeeeah

alleycat · Since 29 Jun 2006 176 Posts Portland Stoked

I have the same problem with my knees, the one thing that made a world of difference was a set of LiteWave Lace up pads. They are super cushy on the landings and the best in chop. I can ride all day with no knee issues at all where in the past I had to use ace wrap after just a few hours of riding. Bottom line is super soft and cushy pads are the ticket for those of us with older broken down knees.

mystery curd · Since 14 Jun 2010 98 Posts Floating

After a few hours of hitting it hard, my 35 yo knees were getting sore for a few hours later. One thing that really helped lessen this tremendously was switching from my Liquid Force Recoil wakeboard ( with big fat cushy pads ) to a 6'1" Surf board. Seems like it (surfboard ) cuts through the chop more smoothly as opposed to just bashing the gorge chop with a wake board. Even though there are no real stomp pads to speak of on the surf board my day is much less painful and longer. I still jump, slash and ride hard and also found that I much prefer the way surfboards ride anyway. I ride at the coast and the gorge. Also, doing downwinders at the coast is almost totally knee pain free with any board for various reasons and seems to me that flat, medium to large, choppy conditions are the most painful after a hard days riding. I think a mix of board selection and riding stance/ style modifications would be beneficial. Hope that helps.

PDXF · Since 10 Sep 2008 116 Posts Stoked

I'm not going to name drop here but I prefer Ibuprofen. Long oval type, not the round stuff.
I have one hellacious bad knee and I find that if I can swivel my feet in the bindings to reduce torsion in my knees I don't need as much of the oval stuff that is hard on the kidneys (or is it liver? Nurse?).

dancingwind · Since 18 Jul 2007 321 Posts Obsessed

I definitely think that a flexible board, good stance and cushy pads (Liquid Force Luxury pads work great for me) are a good start. Having had a few issues with my knees in the past, I think your best bet is to properly strengthen your knees as well as keep them relatively flexible because our knees ultimately absorb the impact of landing and take the beating of riding hour after hour.

Data and research suggests that the quad muscle (quadriceps femoris) plays a major role in stabilizing the knee as well as keeping it properly aligned. It's a pretty easy muscle to exercise, just do squats or leg curls twice a week. Heavier weight with low reps (up to 10 reps) to build knee strength will help absorb landings. Lighter weight and more reps (20 reps or more) to build knee endurance so we can kite for hours and hours. Stretch your quads and hams after each sesh to keep them knees flexible and you should be all set.

Here is a great book about the subject, Treat your own knees by Jim Johnson.

http://www.amazon.com/Treat-Your-Own-Knees-Responsiveness/dp/0897934229/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1293583839&sr=8-1

kenja · Since 19 Jun 2008 179 Posts Stoked

I've had three ACL replacements and am missing some meniscus in both knees. My recipe is a flexible board to eat up the chop. I ride the North X-ride. I also ride a surf board at times, but contrary to what others say, I've found surf boards to be a harsher ride on my knees because of the size and volume.

The minnow · Since 26 Jan 2009 395 Posts argentina Obsessed

First is style. and trends, which seemed to me is people were pushing to ride smaller kites, which forced them to ride a flat rocker, wider board, I dont change boards, my boards are old, but kites are new, the idea of spending money on some crazyfly? or wing, or door, just does not fit my style, my style says buy a closeout kite first, ride the same board, if you give me one I will try it, that day is long away! its a touchy subject with me and am angry, people cry alot, big kites are way cool, people cry they are slow, what do you want in 10knts? and the more rocker means more power! love that power, hate poeple that ride 9m and a surfboard and wait for sets with thier kite at 12, or ride underpowered and strugle and just get in the way, I ride straight down wind all the time and nobody respects this line, they say where did you come from, I just powered up wind in one tack, and you stay in the same place, being well powered allows you to go upwind fast, and down wind faster, remember sailing, its called a spiniker, and there big, what people say here is on the money. not strapless thou, thats not a good idea with nee problems,

FlyDunes · Since 09 Oct 2007 1034 Posts Aloha XTreme Poster

I still say strapless, and here's why.

My left knee has been messed up since a bad downhill skiing accident about 20 years ago that separated my PCL, and tore my MCL and both meniscus. It took major surgery and quite a bit of medieval physical therapy before I could even walk again.

About a year and a half ago my right foot came unstrapped during a crash at Jones, and I torqued my already bad knee. It's been sloppy and unstable ever since. Even just hiking for any distance causes pain.

The doctors say that there's nothing they can do for me now short of a total knee replacement, which they say won't give me any better function or stability.

I dumped my twin tips and got a skim. The skim is much easier on my knee. And crashing unstrapped isn't a risk to it. If you have a bad knee, save it. Ride strapless.

The minnow · Since 26 Jan 2009 395 Posts argentina Obsessed

kitezilla · Since 22 Jun 2006 453 Posts gorge Obsessed

It seems like there would be 3 separate issues if you kite with a bad knee:

(1) Continuous POUNDING on the knee by the type of board.

(2) TWISTING of the knee by a footstrap holding the knee in position, during transitions, riding toeside, and during falls.

(3) Severe JAMMING of the knee on landing hard from high jumps... or from leaving a strapless board, in shallow water, like a cartoon character, running in the air, and then, jamming your knee, as you hit bottom, hard.

Since a narrower board with a lot of rocker and concaves (for instance,Mako 150 or King) might be more kind to the knee, than a wide flat board...wouldn't riding something like a Mako, strapless, be the best choice...if your problem was due to (1) or (2) ?

As far as (3) goes, wouldn't the answer be to parachute down from your jumps, and land soft?...rather than do tricks that require a fast aggressive landing? I think that Bow kites allow you to land more softly, by pulling in on the bar, just at you hit the water.

I don't (thankfully) know much about bad knees, but I do like hypothetical problem solving, and I like the idea of protecting my knees by developing good habits, so that I will be able to continue walking comfortably, in my old age years.

So my guess at the kindest gear to use would be a Mako-like board, as a wakeskate, and a Bow kite. Not much "Wow" factor there, but most kiters (me) don't have that much "wow" to show off, anyways.

FlyDunes · Since 09 Oct 2007 1034 Posts Aloha XTreme Poster

Good well-reasoned input. Thx.