Most Reliable Snowkite Wind?

Windstoked · Since 21 May 2013 43 Posts Norcal

A few of us are planning a snowkite trip the week after Christmas and wanted to get opinions about the place to get reliable enough wind to kite most days.
It's looking like snow will be plentiful everywhere, so we want the best wind. We're considering Camas, Utah and Jackson.

noah · Since 19 Oct 2006 171 Posts Bozeman, Montana Stoked

Your list should add the #1 place for "the best wind". That place would be eastern ID (and south-west MT).

lewmt · Since 04 Aug 2010 182 Posts MT Stoked

Every webcam at a snowkite location looks to be good-as-it-gets kind of conditions. ID, UT, MT....they are all showing great conditions. Watch the NOAA point click spots & go where its best. We travel a lot. Good wind at 1 spot may mean no wind somewhere else or wrong direction or elevation dependent....etc. It changes daily. So - reliable wind - is just where it is. Sorry, don't mean to sound like a smartass but its such a different dynamic than summer in the gorge. Watch these links

http://lb.511.idaho.gov/idlb/cameras/camera.jsf;jsessionid=51C0843452F4AD22D631D6FAA49A2941?id=35&view=state&text=m&textOnly=false
http://rwis.mdt.mt.gov/scanweb/SWFrame.asp?Pageid=Camera&Units=English&Groupid=&Siteid=564000&Senid=&WxId=56400&DisplayClass=Java&SenType=All&SenStatus=&Camera=1
http://udottraffic.utah.gov/
There's usually current weather & wind data available via these links. Many more spots available as well & don't hesitate to inquire through Montana Kiters FB page if you come this far E. Or - Kiters with Attitude FB page for Utah local input. So many great options right now!

rhartsman1012 · Since 06 Dec 2015 7 Posts Astoria, OR Kook

I'm trying to head out to either ID or UT the week after x mas as well. Let me know what your program is and if you have room for one more!

waynepjh · Since 27 Jul 2008 212 Posts jackson wy Stoked

We are getting hammered in jackson and all of our spots are good to go! Many kiting options here.

rhartsman1012 · Since 06 Dec 2015 7 Posts Astoria, OR Kook

Right on, thanks for the update!

Matt V · Tue Dec 22, 15 1:27 pm

At Skyline in UT right now. Well, actually, sitting in a Walmart parking lot waiting out this storm. The last one left what some of the locals called the deepest single snow in 10 years. Some spots I sank overhead without a board and up to my neck with a board 1 day after the snow stopped. So every thing is now kitable - before THIS STORM started to hit.

Skyline seems to snow for another day or two after the storm has moved out. Doesn't make sense, but it does do that. Visibility and high winds are more likley to kick you off out here. But there are many light wind days with "blue bird" skies that yield 14-17m winds. So pack big gear too.

Last year I spent 14 days living in the parking lot up at Skyline and I rode every day. But that was on hard packed snow. Skill is required to make it out and back in softer snow on light wind days. Skyline also seems to be strange in that one slope that should not have wind on the current direction does, and another with perfect exposure to the wind will not. You have to move around and feel it out. Even the locals can go to a spot they think will have wind but get none there. All the while, you are ripping in an unlikely spot watching their kite on the ground.

Not an expert on Jackson, but it seems like Jackson is a lot like Skyline in that different spots have different wind. The difference is that at Jackson, you have to drive a few hours to find wind. Skyline, you just loop your kite to get to where the wind is the best. Not driving is nice. And sleeping in the car right where you launch is the best.

waynepjh · Since 27 Jul 2008 212 Posts jackson wy Stoked

All of the snow kite spots in jackson are less than an hours drive. Skyline is one spot far from other options. You can pretty much kite here 7 days a week riding different spots every day. Don't you get bored riding the same spot every day matt V? How close is skyline to a ski resort or other place to kite?

Here are some videos that include roadside spots around jackson. You would think they might inspire people to visit.
https://vimeo.com/groups/jacksonholekiters

Matt V · Wed Dec 23, 15 11:37 am

I came to Skyline at the end of the snowkite year in February of last year. It was not a choice for me. It was because my friends sled broke down and we could not do the Beartooths (Cooke City, MT) anymore.

And last year was my first real year of western exploration. The snow cover in the Midwest was abysmal. So here is my time line:

Bighorns - Sled in
Started off at the Bighorn Snowkite Summit - Big horns are great for gliding different spots. Great people up at the meet. Noah is the MAN! Riding terrain features was some what lacking. Cornices and halfpipes were not really present in a rideable form. But tons of gliding and exploring to do with some amazing distance runs if you have the skill.

Midwest plains - Walk in
Next I did some minor stuff back on the plains of NE, SD, MN, IA. Not enough snow to get any real terrain riding but did get some road ditch riding that was epic. The big terrain spots (glacial escarpments of the Buffalo Ridge) were never open due to the lack of snowcover. Though Ft. Pierre National Grassland was epic for 2 weeks of just enough snow and wind every day.

Mt. Haggin Montana - Sled in (Grassy Mountain), Walk in other spots
Tried to kite Grassy Mountain but were late getting there. Got to see Bob and Noah shredding it but we had no wind by that time. Looks like a great spot but never moved an inch on it. Then we tried to hit the walk in spots there but again no wind and pretty poor snow. Really hard crusted stuff that would not make for a soft landing. And disappointingly, no wind. Then we hit Raynolds pass but again, skunked on the wind.

Billings Montana- Walk in
Then we rode up around Billings, MT on public walk in areas. Found some terrain and had just as good a time as the Bighorns but the snow was not to last. Only had like 5 days of riding there. But it was epic.

Cooke City, MT - Sled in
Lulu pass had the best power I have ever seen, but as Noah said, it is tough to get the wind to blow there. We could not kite down on the plateau, but we did get a few sessions right at the crest of the pass. Fun, but pretty packed up there. And the whole time we were looking off to the best powder that we could not ride since there was no wind down there. Big Tease! But "Top of the World" delivered some great soft wind blown powder. There was only one really good feature there and you could not ride up the valley sides as the wind was dead there. But the 15' tall drift behind about 6 pine trees made it worth it. IN THE SHACK ON THE SNOW. Happy that thing never cut loose and dropped on me. Then our 2nd sled broke down. And we headded back to Billings where we mulled around replacing the track and got no more snowkiting in for a week. So I bailed for the one place left on my bucket list of snowkiting.

Jackson/Togwotee - Walk in
With no sled, I went on my own and gave it a shot at Togwotee. There was enough snow and a 13mph forecast out of the right direction, but no wind ever materialized for 3 days straight of what I thought would be a great forecast. Had to use the gas station bathroom and was sleeping at a pull out. Not the best van dweller accommodations. I checked the lodge and I think a single room was like $190 a night. Kinda thinkin Jackson area is not for the poor like me. If I remember right, there was a storm coming in so I bailed back for Billings, MT to help with the sled again.

Skyline - Walk in
After a short stay in Billings, MT and not fixing the sled, I saw that Skyline was my only option for some snow. I had never been there and Noah and Bob both talked it down. Their main complaint was that there was "only one hill to glide" unlike the Bighorns or Cooke City. So 2 experienced snowkiters had talked down the place I was going. Thus I had very low expectations. What I found was Paradise for my riding style. That coupled with 14days of wind and someone showing up to kite with every single day, made the trip the best of the year. Even Victor The Inflictor showed up on a day I was determined to take a rest. So I had to kite. The wind on a 7mph forecast was kitable at the top of the hill. And you could get back to the lot without walking. Pretty amazed at that.

But here is the best thing about Skyline - FEATURES! Every day I hit some cornices, bowls, swimming pools (half pipe), or steep roadside embankments that was new to me. Every wind direction you would launch from the same spot, save 1 that Pat told us to drive 2 miles or so to another spot for better visibility. But I came back to the main launch and finished out the day kiting with another local doing some of the most amazing gliding I have ever seen on a hill that you typically do not glide on. And no where, save the Bighorns, have I had such an easy time climbing the back side of a mountain on the wrong wind direction. On top of that sleeping in the parking lot was sweet. No gas bill save starting up to dry your gear off at the end of the day. BATHROOMS RIGHT THERE!

So why Skyline? It is the best park & ride spot I have ever been to. Other locations could be better for gliding. Other spots could be better for riding the flats and beginners. Other spots could be better for solitude. But Skyline has it all wrapped up in one.

Here is the negative about Skyline - Weather. Blue Bird days will allow you to ride but a stormy day will usually yield no visibility. So if there is snow forecast, you may not be riding. If a decent storm is rolling in, you should just not be there period. The road is well maintained for a power station and an active mine near there, but it gets the worst white outs I have ever seen. I had to watch the snowplow guide markers along the side of the road when I came down on Sunday. Pretty scary but a regular occurrence up there. If it is a one day storm, then you are pretty safe to just wait it out in the parking lot.

Of having summers and winters off of work, Winter is the best!

waynepjh · Since 27 Jul 2008 212 Posts jackson wy Stoked

Lol mattv. Your advice is so off i cant keep it to myself. You visit jackson and spend 3 days in the wrong spot and think you can give advice on jackson. You say that our spots require a three hour drive? Total bs. Bondurant is 30 min away, Towgotee is 45 min away and both those spots have more features than skyline. Ive been snowkiting here for 16 years and have learned alot. I love skyline and strawbs but to stear people away from jackson because of your jaded opnion is just wrong. You say that the big horns are only good for gliding thats funny as well. How far away are the downhill skiing options from skyline? 3 hours? We had a kiting event in jackson and rode all 7 days in 5 different spots. I just want people who travel for snowkiting to have the best time possible. Please dont give anymore advice on jackson mattv.

Matt V · Fri Dec 25, 15 4:15 pm

I do not mind being corrected. But my limited experience stands as is, as do the geographical realities. Where do you see that I said 3 hours of driving? I cannot find that statement. Do you have any spots that are 3 hours "Spot to Spot".

You guys seem to be the best kiters and most wiling to share the secrets of your spots around Jackson. At least it seems that way from web forums. And yes, you are correct on my limited experience at Togwotee. I had only 3 days there on what I thought was a perfect direction and wind speed forecast. I actually had read on 2 forums that it would be good there for that specific direction as well as that direction being the best exposure via google earth. Maybe it was only bad luck that had me sitting at the pullout for 3 days with no wind to kite even with an 18m foil.

So far for last year I rode 14 of 14 days at Skyline alone. No bad luck last year

This year again, every day (8days so far) I have been up here, I have kited Skyline in the same spot from the same parking lot where I slept - even today, alone for the first time. No real bad luck this year either.

As for downhill skiing? I do not do that anymore. I'd rather hook up with the snowboarders that shuttle up and ride down. Kicking them 2 of them $10 (what is a lift ticket for any Jackson area hill?) for gas and getting access to untouched, ungroomed powder is pretty sweet. But I have not had to do that here yet, as it has always been windy enough to ride up at the lot.

Like I lead into above, there are some geographical realities that you are omitting. Your drive times seem to be when you are based out of Jackson. So you have to drive some distance to every spot. This is the painful reality for getting to the goods for you - driving every day. And as my experience went when I got skunked out there, Togwotee is NOT 30 minutes away from Bondurant. If you had good weather and low traffic, I am banking that it is more like 1.5hours. All of your spots are pretty spread out where skyline has ZERO drive time with bathrooms and car camping available right in the parking lot. Skyline's max drive would be to Strawberry if you want to go there at a bit over 2 hours. (I have heard all directions work there too.)But again, I have never had to leave Skyline for wind as all wind directions seem to work right here. And on top of that, when the wind direction changes to an odd direction at Skyline, you are not screwed. You are actually excited to ride the same terrain with a different approach or get access to a small 100ydx100yd are that you could not ride with good power on the previous day, since it was wind shadowed a bit.

For those that are considering Skyline vs Jackson, remember my advice is of limited experience, though I am positive you can rely on my geographical analysis. But, should you have the means, definitely give the Jackson are a try and I hope you have better luck than I did. And please take advantage of the knowledge of the friendly Jackson kiters who openly share their secrets.

And thank you, Wayne, for correcting me and putting your expert knowledge out there for traveling snowkiters to use. Your efforts are what makes this such a friendly and inviting community in most areas. You have helped me in the past, though I kind of stumbled into Skyline on my own.

waynepjh · Since 27 Jul 2008 212 Posts jackson wy Stoked

Quote from mattv "Not an expert on Jackson, but it seems like Jackson is a lot like Skyline in that different spots have different wind. The difference is that at Jackson, you have to drive a few hours to find wind. Skyline, you just loop your kite to get to where the wind is the best. Not driving is nice. And sleeping in the car right where you launch is the best."
Roadside kiting in Bondurant https://vimeo.com/38526422
Roadside kiting at Towgotee https://vimeo.com/groups/jacksonholekiters/videos/59745457
Roadside riding in ririe
https://vimeo.com/groups/jacksonholekiters/videos/8644364

These three spots are all less than an hour from jackson. Jackson is a windy and snowy place and i get around 200 days a year kiting.
You can camp in Bondurant at the elk horn and they will let you plug in for free.
You can camp up at Towgotee pass

The point im trying to make is that jackson has so many options compared to skyline. What happens when skyline is in the clouds? You can base yourself in jackson and go kiting every day. Skyline is one spot and jackson has many.

Matt V · Sun Dec 27, 15 11:14 am

So to sum it up, and Wayne, please correct for accuracy -

Skyline in Utah is a "park, camp, and ride" on every wind direction spot with gliding, terrain, features, and the beginners spot right off of the parking lot. No driving for different wind directions. You will miss days on snowstoms, and have to drive 1mile- to 5miles if it is socked in or wait for an opening. Again, I have still kited every day here even on socked in days or when it was snowing. I have bailed one snow storm but you cannot complain about more snow. No snowmobile is required here for any type of riding you may choose to do as all primary features are accessible from one launch.

Jackson has options with no more than a 1.5 hour "spot to spot". Bondurant has free hookups and bathrooms for making it a cheap trip. You can make it less drive time if you are based in a hotel or resort in Jackson and drive to the right spot and do not have to go to another. Jackson is spread out and has more and better gliding options and the main spots support beginners as well as advanced kiters. There is also no need for snowmobile support for access to any wind direction or type of riding.

Could this be a blanket statement for those looking to choose between Skyline and Jackson?

Feel free to make your own comparison or you just do Jackson, and I will stick with Skyline, save my 3 days of no wind there.

I am confident this discussion will be beneficial to those needing info while trying to sort through the hype.

waynepjh · Since 27 Jul 2008 212 Posts jackson wy Stoked

We dont drive spot to spot blindly looking for wind. Each place works during a particular weather pattern. Bondurant works when its blowing nw so does Towgotee pass. During high pressure weather patterns we go to spots that have am catabatic wind that is strong and steady. Like antelope flats. Days with prevailing wind opens up many options. During light winds we can go to any number of spots that get you up high. I have been to kiting events at skyline that didnt have wind. The thing about jackson is there is many options to keep you kiting every day without having to drive far or repeating the same spot over and over again. Been skunked at skyline enough times to not feel the need to go back but i do love the place and the local kiters. Plus the terrain is better in jackson.
Make sure to hit strawberry while you are in utah cause its a really good spot! Tons of features and hills for miles.

Matt V · Mon Dec 28, 15 9:28 am

The old windsurfing motto is - "The best way to kill the wind is to have an event". Seems to work for kiting too.

I may be mistaken, but I thought Towotee was best for somewhere around WNW for the best exposure. That is the forecast I was there on with the middle of the 3 days being more NW.

And thanks for the additional info on Jackson. Is there a good article explaining how to figure out where and when to go? You seem to be adimate about being based out of Jackson for the shortest drive every day. Who would be willing to be a contact for daily location info to give traveling kiters a better chance of driving to the right spot?

And you are right about Skyline. Yesterday was my first out of 24 days where the kite would go up, but you could not move around. So maybe I am just lucky, but that is 23 days of kiting, 1 day of trying. Hard to leave a spot like this but the Glacial escarpments of the Buffalo Ridge back home are calling me. I may kite this morning then head back today.

Thanks again for putting out the info on your spots!

waynepjh · Since 27 Jul 2008 212 Posts jackson wy Stoked

23 days in a row is hard to beat! We post on a jackson hole kiters group when and where we are going. If you come to jackson definitely look me up! I have a place you can crash or park in my driveway if you like. You are mobile and there are a ton of spots that got snow down low not just in jackson. cool spots near logan utah have the potential for huge climbs from the valley. bear lake area too! good luck!

toddjb · Since 16 Oct 2007 271 Posts MD Obsessed