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Sailing Right of Way
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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thealohakid

Since 09 Aug 2006
58 Posts
MAUI
 



PostSun Aug 05, 07 7:53 am    Re: uh. USCG has the final say here Reply with quote

2. Vessels on same tack, downwind vessel is obliged to give way.

3. In the surf, the rider upwind on the wave has priority and is morally obligated to kick your ass if you get in the friggin way. Oddly, this is in fact an extension of rule (2) so it's legal and not a special surf rule at all.

ok according to #2 if I am the upwind rider and I jump and fly into the down wind rider......he would be responsable. How can this make sense when he could never see me coming. My understanding is upwind riders must yield to downwind riders.

A kiter catches a wave........surfer drops in on kiter.......boogie boarder drops in on surfer..........another kiter drops in behind the first kiter.........Who's wave is it?

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blowhard

Since 26 Dec 2005
2023 Posts

Windward



PostSun Aug 05, 07 8:05 am     Reply with quote

the vessel that is nearest a lee shore has the right-o-way (downwind)
because he is the least manuverable
When people DROP-IN
it's because they didn't see you or they are dicks
if they continue
they will be in
HARMS WAY
I have seen surfers drop in on kiters and nearly have thier head removed
when the kiter rips by and they are trying to get going,
heads about ankle high
Surfers seem to think they own the sea ,and we tell the "any wave you want take it"
it keeps the peace (barely)
but you need to watch out for them

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diggler

Since 26 Jun 2007
6 Posts

Kook



PostTue Aug 07, 07 9:25 am    GET THE RULES STRAIGHT Reply with quote

blowhard wrote:
it always is a conflict
that is why the the most capable always are on top and everyone else is
trying to be on top
but what can you do
don't show respect and see what happens
If the top dog is TRULY a top dog he will always give it up for a good rider
BUT
if some gumbies try to infringe and continue to fuck things up
THEY will be dealt with
for sure
IN LINE
between the post that this was taken from and the last blowhard post, i'm trying to figure out if you're serious... 'the best rider has the most right of way?' are you in florence or socal, maybe hawaii? please spare us the tough surfer shit on here. i surf, i respect the lineup, i've ridden waves w/ aggressive riders who go fast to catch every available wave - but when i say available wave i mean it. the 'best' surfer can't snake everybody b/c they'd also have to be the best boxer. go down to alli drive on big island and see if the best guy is riding every wave he could catch - no fucking way w/ 30 other guys who are waiting and going for it when there time gets near. Who's dropping in deeper, and who's closest to the curl? that's getting into the rules. i've never ridden pipe or anything like it , but if johnny boy gives someone a wave there, it's b/c johnny boy was inline for it(not just b/c he was top dog). sorry this IS NOT A RULE at surf spots.
i've ridden florence on kite and on my surfboard, and there's room there to not even worry about these localistic headgames. give the right of way to surfer, give the right of way to a kiter riding a wave, and follow the normal right of ways. AND, blowhard, let people learn - give them some courtesy, some space, some respect, and maybe even some good vibes especially if you see they're struggling. we don't all live on the ocean and can't all be local there; even if you're local, it's not your spot i/e/ you don't own it. we can choose the kind of scene we have at any given spot though. they may not be disrespecting anything, they may just be fucking up, not know better, or whatever. help 'em out and it'll all get better. please don't try to prove anything here. pura vida, man... what's up?

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diggler

Since 26 Jun 2007
6 Posts

Kook



PostTue Aug 07, 07 9:34 am    correcting above Reply with quote

hopefully my post above didn't seem too negative and harsh towards bowhard. i was just disagreeing - strongly. sorry about that. peace

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tstansbury

Since 06 Jun 2006
649 Posts
Rowena and P.C
Addicted



PostTue Aug 07, 07 11:40 am     Reply with quote

The people who say sail power always have right away are wrong. Just talk to a pilot of a large commercial vessel.

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blowhard

Since 26 Dec 2005
2023 Posts

Windward



PostTue Aug 07, 07 12:22 pm     Reply with quote

that's the way it would appear to YOU
Not everybody would agree
especially the better riders here
most of time the conditions take care of everybody that's not up to it
we go out of our way to help the newbies
That ask
there is no place for gumbies here when it's big
and just because you surfed and kited here
doesn't make any diff
it's almost always small in the summer and you are correct plenty of room ,THEN
but when it turns big there is a very limited area
and it's very dangerous
nobody ,,Hardly, drops in EVER
But like last sunday some pals from up north where here
one of them is finally staying in the slot and making some turns
but she didn't give way several times
IT caused several kite crashes some dunkings and near misses,
she has been coming here for many years but never got into the flow,
before that day,
her husband said something about the next day and she asked me about as well .(it wasn't big surf)

Everyone here is going with the guy in control (on the wave)
If there is a question about whos' wave it is we defer to the better rider

The respect for the better rider is up to you
When you watch the action on most days there is always someone who is using the right hand forward instead of checking the rotation out beforehand it usually ends up in some near miss.
This is where it pays to be social and ask the hot dogs whats up

We take turns

I'm not the only person that kites here and I for sure didn't make these rules ,I don't enforce them.
You don't know me,
so perhaps before you single me out for your rant we should meet .
OR
You can take it up with the dozen kiters here and probably 20 windsurfers and countless surfers when you come back.

As this is the system we use and have very few problems
I'm not sure of ANY places where the kiters,windsurfers and surfers all hang out on the beach and in the water give each other hoots .
I don't want to come across as an authority but there IS a system here
and I'm a part of it
( shoot the messenger )

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hedquista

Since 13 Apr 2007
72 Posts
Salt lake city
 



PostTue Aug 07, 07 12:33 pm    two cents Reply with quote

just a small idea. if two riders are going at eachother one should give way. you loose what...15 feet. you can make it up. no big deal. as for surfers. if i was surfing and some kiter or wind surfer came too close for comfort i would be mad. so i as a nice kiter avoid going near swimmers or surfers. there are plenty of waves to catch. plus they hgave to paddle out while i can effortlessley ride out to catch the wave. leagal illeagal... just ride.
if you have skills thata are lacking then stay out of the way of those who have the skills. they know you might be a beginner and they are more aware of you than you really know. maybe i dont know anything...

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captain crusty

Since 30 Aug 2005
92 Posts
PDX
 



PostTue Aug 07, 07 1:48 pm     Reply with quote

Sounds like folks are trying to make the ditch into a point

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pura vida one

Since 22 May 2007
80 Posts

 



PostTue Aug 07, 07 3:09 pm     Reply with quote

well, i've surfed florence in the winter. i can't say i've been out when it's huge, but to be frank, it's not known for being big. is this a local secret? it isn't known for having countless surfers either. it is, however, known by a few for having kiters that will tell other kiters how it is, as if it's their place to. it's not. i had a nice guy share the florence etiquette w/ me the other day at - least as he saw it; i appreciated his courtesy, his tone of voice and generally the vibe. however, as a new rider i won't be told where to ride. i told him that in slightly different fashion. he seemed understanding at least. i was warned that i'd be chewed outwhen it was crowded. i agree it doesn't seem too crowded, and ai definitely hope noone chews. as long as i give right of way, keep people safe, them my conscience is clear. that opinion was shared by another guy i met (who was down from hr) and had been kiting and windsurfing there for 10 years.

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Gman

Since 11 Feb 2006
4907 Posts
Portland
Unstrapped



PostTue Aug 07, 07 3:47 pm     Reply with quote

hedquista wrote:

"if two riders are going at eachother one should give way. you loose what...15 feet. you can make it up. no big deal"

Big deal in the surf if you are setting up to catch a wave.


You see this all the time when the wind is side shore - a kiter is beating upwind, racing a wave into the beach - maybe they caught the swell way on the outside. They think they have priority.

Another kiter is setting up to catch the same wave closer to shore - but upwind and closer to the critical breaking section and preparing to bear off downwind and surf with the swell direction. Does this rider have priority? I think so. The first rider should get upwind outside of the surf zone

But you can see - how having a rotation can help. If it is four guys and 10 miles of swell who cares but if you have 10 kites in a small area it can get dangerous.

_________________
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Last edited by Gman on Tue Aug 07, 07 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

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pura vida one

Since 22 May 2007
80 Posts

 



PostTue Aug 07, 07 4:01 pm    dialogue Reply with quote

g-man, way to keep it real. dialogue helps. and it's the only possible way to consensus here. i don't think there will be consensus b/c other people are going off, pointing fingers and saying they are right, but i ride the waves and will most def consider this. i ride the pretty far inside (at florence at least), so i have to adjust this to allow riders who caught the wave earlier to keep it. i give way to them way when i head out even though i'm on right hand tack, whether i'm upwind or down, etc. anyway, i see an apples/oranges comparison in this topic - on the rules. throw in another fruit too, b/c there are surfing, kiting, and boating rules being tossed around.

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pura vida one

Since 22 May 2007
80 Posts

 



PostTue Aug 07, 07 4:12 pm    the most high Reply with quote

oh yeah, the thing about surfspots : ' the best rider has the most right of way ' must be another florence, oregon secret. go to the world outside and that is simply untrue. as far as everyone in florence going with the better rider, and you speaking for everyone there by using the word 'we', speak for yourself - i live an hour away and it's my local spot. don't sweat it though b/c i'm trying my best to respect people on the water. i disagree w/ you on most of your points and definitely the attitude you present to people here - it's shitty, rude and condescending imo. you should maybe relax and not blowsohard.

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bwd

Since 04 Aug 2007
385 Posts

Obsessed



PostWed Aug 08, 07 7:26 am     Reply with quote

It's cool that surfing is a primitive, old sport that has stood the test of time, but no need to act like a primitive thug or wanna-be alpha dog.

And no need to give "respect" to people who act that way.

I respect other riders, and happily get out of their way, but even "the duke" will have to turn to let me by if the alternative is me getting smashed into a rock or washed over a reef by ducking for him.

And somehow I doubt he would mind, not being all insecure and what.

A good surfer will not be so into himself he can't make room for others.

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blowhard

Since 26 Dec 2005
2023 Posts

Windward



PostWed Aug 08, 07 8:26 am     Reply with quote

Ok,
pure dude,
that was me you got that info from about the yelling thing and yes I heard you say you were going to do what you want.
I could care less
I'm not into the yelling thing or being yelled at
I do live here I get all the waves I want.
I like to see others enjoy themselves riding waves as much almost as riding waves myself
The "Locals"that don't live here are the ones you should consider
(some are rather large and not very forgiving)
I always have been able so far to give way when on a wave
But enough people going "thier" way and collisions are in the future

I make this post so when visitors arrive they won't be making problems by going ass backwards
seems simple enough

I guess when some better riders show up and your not sure who has the right-o-way just do whatever you think best
But I suspect if it was a pro rider that you respect you would give them a wide berth
I speak of we because it is a we thing,
we hang out after sess and enjoy each others company
If you don't like my attitude you should mention this next time you are out here
My opinion of others is irrelevant to the subject

The facts are these guys take up alot of room when swinging thier kites and long downwind runs
Introduce yourself and I'm sure we will be on the same page .
WE are all the folks at Florence who chose to engage in camaraderie
if you don't believe it come up to the jetty when you are done
or just keep to yourself ,
you are not a problem on the beach

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pkh

Since 27 Feb 2005
6548 Posts
Couve / Hood
Site Lackey



PostWed Aug 08, 07 9:12 am     Reply with quote

Right of way in normal conditions and right of way on waves should be two totally different dicussions. In normal conditions sailing rules or common sense could apply.

On waves unless you want to ruin it for whoever is on the wave you just get the hell out of the way, if you are anywhere downwind and on the beach side of the wave from whoever is riding the wave, just turnaround. You'd want the same respect if you were on the wave right? Don't want the best ride of your life to be ruined by somebody downwind.

Blowhard told me they stay out of the surfers way when they get on waves, sounds like a good idea to me. Afterall the surfer is only going to catch a few waves in a sesh whereas we catch dozens...

As far as fitting in with the Florence crew, I'd say they are a friendly bunch if you introduce yourself and follow the rules. I came with beers and a smile, and made sure I checked in about the rotation. Its not localism its just common sense. The locals are identifiable by their big white trucks and ability to tear it up down the line (or down the road depending on how you put it.) Very Happy

Cheers! Thumb's Up

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pura vida one

Since 22 May 2007
80 Posts

 



PostWed Aug 08, 07 9:40 am    last post on this Reply with quote

you gave me the etiqutte the other day? you're chad, the marshall's guy? you said you didn't get on the forums and that you live in eugene. sure you've got the right guy here? you seem a helluva lot more courteous in person. i just don't get your talk on this forum. you have referred to people who 'enforce' the rules, tire slashing, large not-nice locals, etc. what is your point? i'm large enough to be nice. i'm in shape enough that noone wants to get socked in the mouth by me for sure, so don't bother w/ that shit, here or in person. can you step out and see how it looks to someone who reads your posts? probly not.
the guy i met the other day got a launch from me b/c i was looking out for him and saw that he was going to self-launch; i trotted over and offered a launch b/c that's how i keep things on the beach. that's the kinda scene i want, not talk of violence and yelling. you're welcome to chill w/ me at the beach, as other are, but tell them to stay far away if they want to get aggressive. for real. it's not 'pure dude' it's pura vida and you are missing the meaning completely. take your pathetic shots, as you fail to see how the things you say on here reflect so poorly on you.
if it was you, we had an amiable talk, and you should understand that 'doing what i want' means that i'm going to keep it in the shallows while i learn. should i do what you want? reality check. just cuz some guy walks up and tells me where to ride doesn't me it's gonna happen. try it in hr. i said i was going to respect others and give right of way. someone's ridden there a year/two/ three longer... big deal. locals only; florence boyz fo' life, nigga. that's hawaiian style. i've lived there. there are half a dozen of you and it's not the north shore of oahu. the nonlocals outnumber the locals on a good day. and they will keep coming. you'll frustrate yourself most of all, i think, posting to say how things are gonna be at florence. i'm not going to post more - to allow it to get back to something else than our personal correspondence. glad to see others chime in on a real level. so see you on the beach and my vibes will be good. i still think you've got the wrong guy...

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pjc

Since 06 Mar 2005
649 Posts

Addicted



PostWed Aug 08, 07 9:41 am     Reply with quote

well said pkh and blowhard. when it's rotating nicely you can have many riders all sharing it . on the other hand, just one guy "doing his own thing" can mess it up for everybody.

get it good and it takes you downwind. beat back up on the outside, do it again.

no beers required, just an open mind.

_________________
If you feel sleepy you need to be driving faster.

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