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Tack/gybe etiquette and right of way?
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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Matt V

Since 26 Oct 2014
271 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
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PostWed Sep 13, 17 6:14 am     Reply with quote

Sasquatch wrote:
Rider coming in on the wave or waves has right-of-way over rider going out.


To make this clear and to eliminate some potentially disastrous confusion - Only a rider ON A WAVE changes the right of way rules from that in sailing and kitesurfing flatwater. Incoming, but not on a wave, should still yield to outgoing kiter or launching/new kiter first heading out. The only exception is for when you cannot change course due to size of wave that you would have to turn out into and get over. This gives you the right of way by simply not having the option to go out available to you. Think of it as being similar to a barge in the river. For a short time, that barge prevents you from going the direction the barge is heading - same with a big breaking wave. And this is a regular sailing rule regarding an obstruction, not a special kitesurfing rule.

If you have claimed a piece of swell that has not, nor will break for a long time, get on the face and ride it in to stake your claim. If you are going out and see someone on (not just near) a piece of swell or wave about to break, give them the right of way.

It is very important that this rule, which almost all kitesurfers agree upon, does not (d)evolve into "incoming has right of way all the time". Only a kiter claiming (by riding the face) a wave or piece of swell about to wall up, has any ability to change normal right of way rules.

If this rule devolves into meaning that incoming has right of way over out going, some serious problems will arise. The most obvious is that kitesurfers would stack up on the inside, and be held there until the last kiter coming from the outside turns around and heads out again.

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Last edited by Matt V on Wed Sep 13, 17 7:03 am; edited 2 times in total

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voy-tech

Since 08 Apr 2014
274 Posts
SE Portland
Obsessed

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PostWed Sep 13, 17 6:49 am     Reply with quote

Sasquatch wrote:
Perhaps you were just too close for his comfort level and left no margin in case something bad were to happen.


That was my best guess at that time, I guess what I perceive as safe distance may not be the same for others from their perspective.

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Jabob

Since 12 Oct 2012
49 Posts

 



PostWed Sep 13, 17 7:03 am    Honestly independence and freedom Reply with quote

Learn to kite by watching this radical kiter. Don't cut in his space if he was there first . I don't kite near anyone they are all following me but can't figure out how to kite because they are not free and independent thinkers. Figure it out yourself is part of the project of trying to kite like me. Don't talk shit if you are a stupid copy artist infringing on freedom and independence Displayed in front of you all for 20 years.Learn to kite through karma not using money to pay some false kiters babysitting. Learn to kite with your eyes not your wallet.

If some rad dude is all solo don't cut in his space and go whining to your baby sitter you pay to whine to. You got the whole ocean to show off for you bitch.


I rule at kiting . I am not a circus kite instructor . Remember freedom and independence are the goal you snob

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user124

Since 02 Aug 2012
228 Posts
Portland
Stoked



PostWed Sep 13, 17 8:03 am    Re: Honestly independence and freedom Reply with quote

Jabob wrote:
Learn to kite by watching this radical kiter. Don't cut in his space if he was there first . I don't kite near anyone they are all following me but can't figure out how to kite because they are not free and independent thinkers. Figure it out yourself is part of the project of trying to kite like me. Don't talk shit if you are a stupid copy artist infringing on freedom and independence Displayed in front of you all for 20 years.Learn to kite through karma not using money to pay some false kiters babysitting. Learn to kite with your eyes not your wallet.

If some rad dude is all solo don't cut in his space and go whining to your baby sitter you pay to whine to. You got the whole ocean to show off for you bitch.


I rule at kiting . I am not a circus kite instructor . Remember freedom and independence are the goal you snob


Voy-tec I wouldn't worry about it. Sometimes people just have anger issues. See above.

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Jabob

Since 12 Oct 2012
49 Posts

 



PostWed Sep 13, 17 8:45 am     Reply with quote

Please don't call me degrading names offensively then I will defend articulately as a smooth logician would . Expand that little speck in your brain through true karma . Mr offensive degrading snob

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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
1136 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
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PostWed Sep 13, 17 9:22 am     Reply with quote

More coffee
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Kip Wylie

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Matt V

Since 26 Oct 2014
271 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
Explosive Diarrhea



PostFri Sep 15, 17 7:12 am     Reply with quote

Jabob wrote:
Please don't call me degrading names offensively then I will defend articulately as a smooth logician would .


I am sorry if anyone has called you names. And with no intent to degrade, I am assuming that English is not your first language. But I will ask you to clarify where you have been called names, especially when you have called others:

1. (they)"can't figure out how to kite because they are not free and independent thinkers"
2. (they are) "trying to kite like me" (implying they can't or never will)
3. "you are a stupid copy artist"
4. "false kiters babysitting"????
5. "Learn to kite with your eyes not your wallet"????
6. (you) "go whining to your baby sitter you pay to whine to"
7. "I am not a circus kite instructor" (implying the poster is?)
8. "Remember freedom and independence are the goal you snob"
9. "Expand that little speck in your brain...."
10. "Mr offensive degrading snob"

Are you angry because you have been called out as the culprit in one or more of these cases? If so, try to take it as helping the community illustrate an area of conflict for potential resolution via examination of said conflict. Hopefully the resolution already exists as a well defined sailing rule as voy-tech has suggested.

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Jabob

Since 12 Oct 2012
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PostFri Sep 15, 17 8:36 am     Reply with quote

5walnut10

Since 01 Aug 2014
37 Posts





PostMon Sep 11, 17 10:21 pm Tack/gybe etiquette and right of way? Reply with quote
Recently I've run into the same kiter at a 3 different beaches. He has a tendency to follow me (or anyone else) directly in the calm section of my wake right up to shore.

This seems like a dick move since he's basically forcing people to stop when they get close to shore since he's cutting off anyone's ability to change direction.

Does this fall into any kind of sailing right of way rules? I'm going to say something the next time he does it to me but I'd like to know the proper etiquette to inform him of. He seems oblivious to the fact he's screwing people over.

Ok here are your delusional lies. Accusations lies . Who is following who? Who is lieing and making false accusations. I didn't start this crap . I have been kiting for twenty years. I love kiting and you want to impose on my space and freedom . Accuse me of being what .? Do you know the rules before you accuse and degrade my art?

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5walnut10

Since 01 Aug 2014
43 Posts

 



PostFri Sep 15, 17 8:59 am     Reply with quote

I've got no idea who you are Jabob. I asked a question about right of way to further educate myself based on what I thought was a dick move.

The person in mind is college age, not a 20 year kite veteran.

Have a nice day.

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Jabob

Since 12 Oct 2012
49 Posts

 



PostFri Sep 15, 17 9:57 am     Reply with quote

Well sorry . I hope for the feelings I get for everyone involved . I am sorry for any confusion. I would never bother anyone intentionally. Sorry peace be with you all sorry

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Jabob

Since 12 Oct 2012
49 Posts

 



PostFri Sep 15, 17 11:13 am    Sorry for any degrading comments Reply with quote

My bad . Ya I have had people upset from time time for years. I am so sorry for degrading comments. I am very peaceful and very positive about the moment . I had the same sort of thing with that kid then we went separate ways mutually . Living for the moment of magic I waved goodbye to the dude. and to all those that love kiteboarding. I love you sorry for any confusion over my deep love.
Mainly I want to avoid any conflict with anyone. Hope my apologies are acceptable in a summary of what I have been through and how it reflects on my kiting and how I hope to have any and all conflicts resolved peacefully and move forward for another 20 years of kiteboarding.sorry everyone

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5walnut10

Since 01 Aug 2014
43 Posts

 



PostFri Sep 15, 17 4:27 pm     Reply with quote

It's all good. Very Happy

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Matt V

Since 26 Oct 2014
271 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
Explosive Diarrhea



PostSat Sep 16, 17 6:10 am     Reply with quote

Jabob,

Thanks for your understanding. And it appears that it may not have been you that the OP is mentioning.

I have looked into it and verified with others from various sailing disciplines. Sailing/navigation rules clearly say that the kiter who holds another kiter against an obstruction such as shore does not have the right of way. So a kiter held on the inside has every right to let the kiter holding them repeatedly on the inside they are in the wrong. If a collision occurs, maritime law will side with the kiter held on the inside.

This also presents a problem for those who suggested you do the same thing to the offender. If a person hit your car from the rear, would you drive around and hit them from the rear? If you did, you would now be just as liable. Two wrongs don't make a right.

As it stands in kitesurfing now, you cannot hold another kiter up against shore. You must yeild and head back out before you cause the kiter inside of you to alter their course (or by stoping kiting/wait to jibe or tack) because of you. The ONLY exception to this is when a kiter is coming in ON an incoming wave (or obstruction preventing them from turning around and going out). In that case, kiter on the inside does not have the right of way and thus must take appropriate course corrections (go downwind, or jump off board and wait?) to avoid the kiter incoming on the wave.

This last exception exists only on the ocean (possibly great lakes) where a wave can reach a significant enough height to prevent a kiter from turning around and heading back out.

To again make sure there are no misunderstandings-

If you are coming in between waves and not actually riding one, and can turn around to get back out, you must do so if there is an outgoing kiter. And an outgoing kiter IS an outgoing kiter if they are still headed to shore, but are running out of depth to safely turn around and need to do so immediately. This is because, reguardless of current direction of travel, you cannot hold another kiter against an object.

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kwessells

Since 13 Sep 2014
2 Posts

New Member



PostMon Sep 18, 17 10:00 am     Reply with quote

You could try to explain the US Sailing Rule regarding Clear Ahead.

ON SAME TACK, ASTERN-AHEAD. When boats are on the same tack and not overlapped, the boat clear astern must keep clear. (Rule 12)

Note: One boat is "clear astern" if she's entirely behind a line through the other boat's aft-most point, perpendicular to the other boat. The other boat is "clear ahead." Two boats are "overlapped" if neither is clear ahead of the other.

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