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Foilmount - turns any board into a foilboard
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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luke

Since 06 Jul 2005
399 Posts

Obsessed



PostThu Dec 22, 16 7:02 am    consumer product testing Reply with quote

The bond between the plate and the skin of a board appears super bomber

However, the real issue to consider is the structural integrity of the board that you are gluing the foil to.

Remembering a few basic facts about board construction.
All non-foil boards on the market are designed and constructed to be as light as possible (given the price point each manufacturer is marketing to).
All non-foil boards on the market have added structural reinforcing in areas that have proven over time to require it (rails, foot area, full length stringers, etc.).
All foil boards on the market have some type of structural reinforcement built into the board to handle the load created by the foil.
All non-foil boards on the market have NOT been designed NOR constructed to handle the load of a stick-on foil.

This concept relies 100% on the structural integrity between the skin of the board and the body of the board. Yet, there is not a single non-foil board on the market that has designed or constructed their boards to handle the load of a foil.

ie, the foil will stay bonded to the skin, but the skin can tear off, the skin can de-laminate, the board could buckle in front of behind the plate, etc.

Time will tell.

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scottnorby

Since 23 Sep 2005
538 Posts
Cascadia - Seattle - Encinitas
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PostThu Dec 22, 16 5:18 pm    stickon foils Reply with quote

Hmmm true.
Big boost?
A stick on foil
on a lightly glassed 'old beater board'
would be a bad mix.

More carnage videos ha.

Good idea though ...really.

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kitebot

Since 20 Feb 2007
251 Posts

Obsessed



PostThu Dec 22, 16 10:39 pm     Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/b4j6ditXEOQ

Their latest video gives a good sense of the mount's strength. It'd be interesting to see the same test with an epoxy surfboard.

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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
1634 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
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PostFri Dec 23, 16 10:53 am     Reply with quote

kitebot wrote:
https://youtu.be/b4j6ditXEOQ

Their latest video gives a good sense of the mount's strength. It'd be interesting to see the same test with an epoxy surfboard.


When JoetheKiter, Stringy, and I were at Jones last June with my converted North Whip.... the ride was good. But once we came to the shore and started push-pulling on the mast? You could see it was torquing the board to near catastrophic. If one of us had hit a log there's no way that board would've survived in one piece.
Then I added the 4 each 3/8X 1/2" stringers of oak wrapped in 4 oz. cloth. Solid.

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bobgatpdx

Since 04 Oct 2008
218 Posts

Stoked



PostSat Dec 24, 16 4:40 pm     Reply with quote

They just posted another video titled "Slamming Sandbars at Full Speed".
- Bob

https://youtu.be/S4n6dN8GebA


   Screen Shot 2016-12-24 at 4.40.09 PM.png 

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Scriffler

Since 03 Jul 2005
581 Posts
LYLE
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PostSat Dec 24, 16 5:31 pm     Reply with quote

The board they stuck that thing on looked like a vacuum bagged carbon wrapped EPS board. Those things are the strongest thing ever. Put that thing on an old polyester surfboard and do the same test.

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C Johnson

Since 17 Apr 2009
853 Posts
Seattle
Opinionated



PostTue Dec 27, 16 10:25 am     Reply with quote

I'd recommend adding a separate adhesive point with a tether. foils are way to expensive to risk losing from adhesive failure.

I could see this working okay if you already know how to foil (assuming you don't jump) but I wouldn't expect it to hold up to the abuse of a bucking bronco beginner.

Ideally the plate would have graduated flex so that it is stiff in the middle but flexible around the edges so that the tension load on the adhesive near the edges is minimized by allowing the plate to flex with the board. something that has some flex would also allow it to adapt to board contours better (rocker and double concave) If I was going to mount this on anything I would probably want to edge seal and overcoat (if you're in aerospace you know what I'm talking about) with something like a urethane or RTV to prevent water from working its way into the adhesive.

Neat idea but I think the creator needs to provide more proof that it is a proven concept. It would also be beneficial to provide some instructions for surface prep such as what time of sand paper and cleaners to use to maximize bonding and how long the bond should sit before it achieves full strength. Particularly since not all boards have the same finish or material type. I would also imagine this is probably something that has a limited range of temperature use so it would be good to know what the limits are in terms of hot/cold storage and functional temperature range.

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C Johnson

Since 17 Apr 2009
853 Posts
Seattle
Opinionated



PostTue Dec 27, 16 10:36 am     Reply with quote

bobgatpdx wrote:
They just posted another video titled "Slamming Sandbars at Full Speed".
- Bob

https://youtu.be/S4n6dN8GebA


that test barely puts any tension on the mast. for one, because he's not wearing straps and also because the board just stops so the majority of the force is shear force on the adhesive. That's fine if you plan on riding strapless and only intend to slam into soft sand when you crash but its not a real world test.

They need to put straps on the board and let it slam down in the water a few times at speed. That will put a proper amount of leverage on the mast. there should be a warm water and cold water test since the adhesive will likely be more susceptible to catastrophic failure at cold temps and more susceptible to creep at high temps.

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bobgatpdx

Since 04 Oct 2008
218 Posts

Stoked



PostTue Dec 27, 16 7:16 pm     Reply with quote

Obviously, a through-hole or glassed-in attachment is going to be more robust, but this adhesive-based foilmount is a simple, elegant solution that could work well for some boards and riders. The Houston Kiteboarding guys have done a lot to make foiling more accessible to those that are interested. Keep up the good work guys!
- Bob

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bobgatpdx

Since 04 Oct 2008
218 Posts

Stoked



PostTue Jan 03, 17 9:55 pm     Reply with quote

Check out the latest video from the Foilmount guys - they used Foilmount to put a foil on an old polyester surfboard. Nothing special and it worked just fine. Pretty impressive.
- Bob

https://youtu.be/SKWlnJq7EjM


   Screen Shot 2017-01-03 at 9.53.32 PM.png 

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Mark

Since 20 Jun 2005
3677 Posts
I need my fix because I'm a
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PostWed Jan 04, 17 9:29 am     Reply with quote

Thumb's Up
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stringy

Since 23 Jun 2006
1724 Posts
vancouver
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PostWed Jan 04, 17 9:01 pm     Reply with quote

okay I'm impressed if it works on that little ole surfboard.
I think where you'll see demand for this product is with SUP riders wanting to experience foiling without having to upgrade to a board with tracks.
the problem I see is if you slap that on your board, you probably cannot ride it as well when non-foiling

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pauls

Since 20 Jun 2005
562 Posts
white salmon
Addicted



PostMon Jan 09, 17 3:20 pm     Reply with quote

stringy wrote:
okay I'm impressed if it works on that little ole surfboard.
I think where you'll see demand for this product is with SUP riders wanting to experience foiling without having to upgrade to a board with tracks.
the problem I see is if you slap that on your board, you probably cannot ride it as well when non-foiling


Yeah what Jim said.....need to replace that adhesive with Velcro then it'll be proper!

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bobgatpdx

Since 04 Oct 2008
218 Posts

Stoked



PostMon Jan 09, 17 9:22 pm     Reply with quote

Hard to please this crowd! Yes, it probably won't work great as a non-foilboard once you stick the Foilmount on, but that's not really the point is it? Given the convenience, I think this is a reasonable compromise.

This Foilmount system provides a great way to make a foilboard out of just about any surfboard, directional kiteboard, or SUP. Now you don't have to drop big bucks for a brand new board with tracks, or mess around with drills and epoxy to modify a board - just stick it on and you're good to go.

C'mon, throw me a bone here!
- Bob

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stringy

Since 23 Jun 2006
1724 Posts
vancouver
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PostTue Jan 10, 17 7:08 am     Reply with quote

bobgatpdx wrote:
Hard to please this crowd! Yes, it probably won't work great as a non-foilboard once you stick the Foilmount on, but that's not really the point is it? Given the convenience, I think this is a reasonable compromise.

This Foilmount system provides a great way to make a foilboard out of just about any surfboard, directional kiteboard, or SUP. Now you don't have to drop big bucks for a brand new board with tracks, or mess around with drills and epoxy to modify a board - just stick it on and you're good to go.

C'mon, throw me a bone here!
- Bob


hey bob I'm pleased!
order one up and give us your impressions after a season of riding. I'm sure it works fine like the videos demonstrate. for a normal foiler, it looks like a good viable product for someone that will be normal foiling (mowing the lawn).
For free style foiling, I'm thinking you will want to go a different route.

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Chipotle

Since 26 Mar 2011
70 Posts

 



PostTue Jan 10, 17 7:43 am    lateral loads Reply with quote

They still have not shown a test in which they induce a rolling moment into the mast. The foil mount will actually be critical about the roll axis, given the smaller dimension of the rectangular base plate and therefore higher reaction short couple.

It's quite easy to induce rolling moments on a foil, and I have seen them fail in this way. It is especially easy for SUP boards, with wider planforms, because your moment arm is longer. Banked turns cause rolling moments, as well as boost landings.

Finally, given the amount of flex I saw in the surfboard, there's no way this thing will last long term. Surfboards (or any cored-structures) are not designed for out-of-plane loads. Over time, you will microcrack the polyester or epoxy matrix, likely experience water ingress, and the bottom skin will delam from the foam core. All of their tests have been ultimate/abuse conditions. I haven't seen any fatigue testing, which is how all of my surfboards have failed, even without a foil mount.

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bobgatpdx

Since 04 Oct 2008
218 Posts

Stoked



PostFri Jan 13, 17 5:26 pm     Reply with quote

I already have an Alien Air foilboard with tracks for kiting, but I'm definitely going to try Foilmount on an old SUP board I have for SUP-foil-surfing. Beats the heck out of doing surgery on it to add tracks or a through-hole foil mount. I'll post some pics and let you know how it goes.
- Bob

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