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ride engine harness
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kassak

Since 18 May 2010
107 Posts

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PostSun Apr 24, 16 3:00 pm    ride engine harness Reply with quote

Anyone using one and have any feedback?

I saw them for the first time in hatteras @ Real this past week, looked pretty nice, but pricey. They had demos at but not in a small so didn't get to try one out.

Thoughts?

Anyone using the rope spreader with a cabrinha control system where the chicken look doesn't open, what did you set up?

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Wind Slither

Since 04 Mar 2005
2570 Posts
The 503
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PostSun Apr 24, 16 3:12 pm     Reply with quote

Try the search function to review numerous threads on here on this subject.

I just got the hex and have had it out once. The harness felt great. I got the 11" dynabar with the sliding hook. I found with the stretch of the rope plus the length of the hook it was a bit far out with my arms. I took the hook off and put the ring on and will try it just with the ring next.

I saw on other threads that guys were going with 2 rings. Is this for extra strength? Or for less wear on the chicken loop? I'd like to make it even shorter and put the chicken loop around the rope but I suppose the rope would just saw through the chicken loop?

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patdaniels

Since 29 Jul 2015
91 Posts
Seattle area
 



PostSun Apr 24, 16 7:25 pm    Ride Engine Harness Reply with quote

There are lots of questions about Ride Engine harnesses lately. Spent a bunch of time researching, tried a number of options out and now fairly dialed in. Sharing detailed info hoping it saves research time for interested kiters.

1. I have a Pro Series Ride Engine harness size small with both 10" slider and hook bars. I'm a 33" inch waist, 6' tall, 165 lbs.

2. Plan on mostly using the slider bar due to riding style - mostly hooked in. Been jumping with slider bar and getting used to the different feel vs hook while jumping. Not sure if I'll jump my highest on the slider bar, but jumping is fine on the slider bar.

3. I'll use the hook bar when I feel like boosting as high as I can hooked in, or occasionally unhooking, and for situations where I need to transfer a flying kite to another kiter.

4. When I kite at a spot that has people there for assisted launch/land, or at a spot I know I can self launch/land easily without a rope/carabiner attached to a fixed object, I use two - 1 inch stainless steel O rings on the slider line. To add O rings to slider line, simply untie the slider line knot on one end behind the bar, add the two O rings, then retie the slider bar line on the bar. Example O rings - http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--stainless-steel-o-rings--P002_060_006_002

5. When I kite at a place where there is no one around and it's high wind and/or no room for error on self launch, I will use a rope/carabiner attached to a fixed object to launch and land off of - with my chicken loop attached to a 3" snap hook attached to the slider bar line. This will likely work for those that have chicken loops that do not open. Example snap hook, but it's not load rated and made in China - http://www.fisheriessupply.com/sea-dog-line-snap-hook-standard

6. IMHO look for a load rated snap hook made in Italy or France vs China. It will be about $5 for China made and $15 to $25 for French or Italian made snap hook without eye grommet. Worth the +$10 or so to ensure integrity of metal under load.

7. With the slider line inly or with O rings, you have to release your chicken loop, thread the released chicken loop through slider line or O rings, then reattach the threaded chicken loop. With a 3" snap hook, it will fit most chicken loop diameters (smaller snap hooks like 2" may not) and you can simply snap the chicken loop in the snap hook, thus avoiding threading the released chicken loop and reattaching.

8. I ride Slingshot and use the small chicken loop bar part available from Slingshot when I'm riding the slider bar. This gives me back ~2 inches of bar throw lost to slider line play coupled with 1 inch O rings or 3" snap hook. The net of using a smaller chicken loop with slider line and O rings is about the same distance from your body that a hook bar is. Also, if you ride the slider bar, you normally remove the donkey stick on your chicken loop so it does not poke at you while riding. If you switch to the hook bar, you add back the normal CL and donkey stick. Slingshot small chicken loop for Compstick Guardian http://www.slingshotsports.com/2014-2016-Small-Chicken-Loop#.Vx2J2DArKUk

9. I like two - 1 inch O rings on the slider line the best! It's tighter than the 3" snap hook and it appears to save wear on the chicken loop/slider bar line compared to threading chicken loop just through slider line with no O rings. The only issue is that you can't safely self launch/land on a rope/carabiner attached to a fixed object.

10. So, I go to the beach with the slider bar attached to my harness with two - 1 inch O rings on the slider line as my normal setup. I keep the 3" Italian snap hook in my kite bag, along with the hook bar. Once I'm at the beach and can see launch situation, I make the call to use slider line with 2 O rings; or add the snap hook to the slider line keeping the two O rings on the line; or replace the slider bar with the hook bar.

11. I've been using a high end, more traditional waist harness over the last few years. The one I've been using has been kick ass, but it was an eye opener the first time I tried a Ride Engine harness. Here is what I like about it - does not move on my body at all, smaller footprint performs better than other harnesses I've used, slider bar is amazing for freedom of movement, you can add a snap hook for ease of launch/land on rope/carabiner, and the hook bar is always there for unhooked, boosting big, or to transfer a flying kite to another kiter.

I feel like harnesses are to kiteboarding similar to what ski boots are to skiing. It's worth a little effort to optimize the fit and function of your harness, like you would do with your ski boots.

Pics below.

Cheers!
Pat


My "default harness setting"
 My "default harness setting"  Ride Engine Slider Bar with O rings on harness ready to kite.jpg 
small chicken loop with O rings - tighter than snap hook, about the same bar throw as regular chicken loop with hook
 small chicken loop with O rings - tighter than snap hook, about the same bar throw as regular chicken loop with hook  Ride Engine Slider Bar with O rings small chicken loop bar throw.jpg 
regular size chicken loop and donkey stick for hook bar
 regular size chicken loop and donkey stick for hook bar  Ride Engine Hook Bar with standard chicken loop bar throw.jpg 
This is the best one I could find - load rated, chicken loop fits through gate.
 This is the best one I could find - load rated, chicken loop fits through gate.  Load rated 3 inch snap hook Italy.jpg 
   Ride Engine Slider Bar with 3 inch snap hook on harness ready to kite.jpg 
small chicken loop, no donkey stick
 small chicken loop, no donkey stick  Slider bar with 3 inch snap hook on slider line bar throw.jpg 

Last edited by patdaniels on Wed Apr 27, 16 9:09 pm; edited 3 times in total

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moondog

Since 15 Aug 2007
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PostMon Apr 25, 16 7:39 am     Reply with quote

Thanks for all the great info and photos PatDaniels! I just got a Ride engine and your post answered all my concerns on self launch options, Mucho Graciano!
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knotwindy

Since 25 Sep 2011
598 Posts

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PostMon Apr 25, 16 9:37 am     Reply with quote

something to think about
riding with a snap hook leaves the possibility of a line getting into the hook and causing huge problems. might want to find a way to close off the gate easily to prevent an unwanted line hook-in.
also, if you are taking the donkey dick off anyway, just replace it with a small loop of kite line, just big enough for the carabiner to pass through, and you have an easy fixed/tether hook up.

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patdaniels

Since 29 Jul 2015
91 Posts
Seattle area
 



PostMon Apr 25, 16 11:40 am     Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback knotwindy!

It's possible, but not probable, to get a kite line in the gate of the snap hook attached to the slider line in this application. Your proposed solution might work, but there would be a closed loop hanging while kiting that could get caught on something in a real safety release scenario, maybe your hands or fingers. Not sure which possibility is worse, but it's worth consideration.

***Edit**** I played around with it today after knotwindy's post and decided to stay with the 3" snap hook I have for tethered self launch/land. This is due to the time it takes to thread the chicken loop through the O rings or slider line and reconnect while your kite is tethered and bouncing on wing tip. There is no way around that with the loop approach, you still have to take the time to thread chicken loop and reattach. With the snap hook, it's click-click you are done. I'm more worried about botching tethered self launch/land using kite line loop than I am using a non locking snap hook- and kite lines getting locked in gate somehow.

When I kite in waves, probably will not use the snap hook. That would be the most likely scenario getting pounded in the surf that would result in lines getting in the snap hook gate, which would definitely SUCK.

The locking gate carabiners/snap hooks/snap shackels I've seen seemed to be either too big, too heavy, not load rated, tricky to open/close quickly, or too expensive. Here's a locking carabiner, load rated appropriate for salt water but it's $100! http://www.westmarine.com/buy/wichard--auto-lock-carabiner--155310

This snap shackle would probably work and it's locking, but again expensive @ $60 to $90. http://www.westmarine.com/buy/wichard--fixed-bail-snap-shackles--P002_060_001_509

Excellent point though and good to be fully aware of every possibility!

Last edited by patdaniels on Wed Apr 27, 16 9:16 pm; edited 4 times in total

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SalmonSlayer

Since 27 Nov 2005
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PostTue Apr 26, 16 7:46 am     Reply with quote

knotwindy wrote:
something to think about
riding with a snap hook leaves the possibility of a line getting into the hook and causing huge problems. might want to find a way to close off the gate easily to prevent an unwanted line hook-in.
also, if you are taking the donkey dick off anyway, just replace it with a small loop of kite line, just big enough for the carabiner to pass through, and you have an easy fixed/tether hook up.


Find clear air hose or similar that slides on the gate with a small amount of friction. When you close the gate, just slide the hose section over the connection between the gate and hook. I used this method commercial fishing where the gate would very likely open without the added hose and it was under much heavier loads. It is an inexpensive simple solution that did not slow us down when we needed to open the hook and it never failed.

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ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1470 Posts
Hood River
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PostTue Apr 26, 16 7:57 am     Reply with quote

Pat,
Have you popped the quick release with the 2-ring setup?

I'm wondering how easily the chicken loop slides thru 2 rings and fully releases?

BTW - I have 30 sessions on the harness using the chicken loop around the rope.... and it show's very little signs of wear.

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patdaniels

Since 29 Jul 2015
91 Posts
Seattle area
 



PostTue Apr 26, 16 9:08 am     Reply with quote

Great solution SalmonSlayer for closing snap hook/carabiner gate easily - brilliant! Thank you.

ldhr - yes, I have deployed the safety release a number of times testing out O ring, snap hook, and just slider line options. I tried 3/4" and 1" stainless steel O rings and did NOT notice a difference in the smoothness of chicken loop releasing through O rings, nor did it feel any different from releasing just though the slider line with no O rings. My gut told me to go with 1" O rings to give it just a little more room to release through vs 3/4" O rings.

And yes, I'm using O rings to reduce wear on the chicken loop and slider line, distribute load a little, here's why...all of my kite sessions testing O rings, just slider line, and snap hook have been in salt water rigging and launching on course sandy beach. I noticed more wear on the chicken loop and slider line without the O rings. I'm thinking salt water vs fresh water and course sand beach vs grass or dirt rigging/launching may have a significant impact on chicken loop and slider line wear.

Were those 30 sessions in primarily fresh water with rig and launch in dirt or fine sand/gorge or salt water with rig and launch on course sand beach/coast?

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patdaniels

Since 29 Jul 2015
91 Posts
Seattle area
 



PostWed Apr 27, 16 7:05 am     Reply with quote

Pics of adding 1/4" air hose to 3" snap hook to address concern, at least partially, of kite line getting into snap hook gate somehow during a crash or other incident when using a snap hook or non locking carabiner on a slider line.

I put two "locking bands" of air hose on the snap hook. One is 2mm, the other is 4mm. The 2mm is way easier to slide on the snap hook, but not as strong. 4mm locking band is on there as a stopper for the 2mm, and a back up if the 2mm moves out of place too easily.

I have not tested it on water yet, but messing around with it off the water, it appears that the 2mm will hold it shut under some stress. But yes - it's still possible a kite line could move the 2mm locking band and then get in the gate under the right set of circumstances, but that possibility is reduced with this method.

There are probably better and different ways to add a locking band, open to other suggestions!


   snap hook locking band using air hose locked position.jpg 
   snap hook locking band using air hose open position.jpg 

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Mark

Since 20 Jun 2005
3677 Posts
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PostWed Apr 27, 16 11:47 am     Reply with quote

Added a Ronstan snap shackle to my rope. Works great.

Ride with Ronstan snap shackle
 Ride with Ronstan snap shackle  Ride.jpg 

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Wind Slither

Since 04 Mar 2005
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The 503
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PostWed Apr 27, 16 12:20 pm     Reply with quote

That looks good Mark. I would really like to try it with the chicken loop around just the rope to keep the bar as close as possible. I like hearing that Idhr isn't seeing any wear after 30 sessions. Thinking I might try slipping a slightly larger tubing or something over the chicken loop tuning for some extra wear protection.

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patdaniels

Since 29 Jul 2015
91 Posts
Seattle area
 



PostWed Apr 27, 16 12:56 pm     Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Added a Ronstan snap shackle to my rope. Works great.


Have you self launch/land off a tether using that snap shackle? Would be great to know if it's quick n' easy or not in that application.

I looked at them and counted them out thinking it would be a little too tricky switching CL from tether to snap shackle quickly for self launch on tether.

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Justsmile

Since 20 Jul 2009
1523 Posts
Not Portland
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PostWed Apr 27, 16 1:22 pm    dynabar Reply with quote

I put the dynabar sliding hook on mine. works good. will post a pic menana when I am home.
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knotwindy

Since 25 Sep 2011
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PostWed Apr 27, 16 6:03 pm     Reply with quote

i am curious why it needs to quick and fast if you are on a tether. Even in only somewhat steady winds it will just sit there while you have lunch if you want. What's the rush?

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Loneski

Since 18 Dec 2010
103 Posts
Washington
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PostWed Apr 27, 16 6:39 pm     Reply with quote

One thing to consider is how easy or difficult it is to hook back in on the water after an accidental or emergency release. The days of just pulling your loop and putting it on your hook are done. With moving water and in over powered conditions it can be a challenge to rethread everything. Practice close to shore. You might be shocked how difficult it can be.
Also the single stainless steal ring needs to be very heavy duty. After one session mine is now an oval. I think I will hook directly to my rope. My problem comes from trying different ideas on completely removing the chicken loop altogether.

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patdaniels

Since 29 Jul 2015
91 Posts
Seattle area
 



PostWed Apr 27, 16 8:13 pm     Reply with quote

This is a helpful discussion to a lot of peeps, glad it's happening....

I use two O rings to distribute load and wear on CL. There is no oval or deform developed yet but will look for it. Also use thicker diameter O rings, don't have exact spec handy at moment but probably good idea to go with thicker diameter O rings and use two, or skip the O rings and thread through rope if you are not concerned about wear on CL and slider line.

Yes, rethreading released CL through O rings or slider line can be difficult, in rough conditions may not be able to. Perhaps an advantage to snap hook on slider line.

Why move quickly on tethered launch? It does depend on conditions - gusts, sudden shift in wind direction is the concern. I used to think the kite just sits there on tethered launch until I witnessed a botched tethered launch that went really bad. Kite bouncing unattended combined with devil gusts launched kite straight up to 12 and then tomahawk to the ground on other side of wind window destroying kite. Not a pretty sight to see plus quite dangerous and expensive. It has happened to experienced kiters.

On a tethered self launch, I always move quickly with my hand running along the top center line from kite on wingtip back to CL attached to tether (easy with 4 line Slingy bar set up), then calmly but quickly attach my leash to safety ring, unclip chicken loop out of tether then clip CL into snap hook and go. The quicker the better, reduces exposures to mishaps...only takes one to mess you or gear up.

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