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Seal Sighting off the Event Site
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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Jonpnw

Since 22 Jul 2010
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PostFri Apr 15, 16 9:32 am    Most Wanted Reply with quote

I'm not sure how comfortable I am with kiters packing heat on the water. Very Happy
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Join the Columbia Gorge Water Sports Association. http://gorgewindsurfing.org/

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astanton

Since 18 Jul 2013
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PostSat Apr 16, 16 8:40 am     Reply with quote

Wolves eating deer...sea lions eating fish... what's happening to this world!? And what's with the bees? Those ruthless bastards are stinging people and sending them into anaphylactic shock! I say kill em all and let god sort em out!
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Nak

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PostSat Apr 16, 16 9:12 am     Reply with quote

astanton wrote:
Wolves eating deer...sea lions eating fish... what's happening to this world!? And what's with the bees? Those ruthless bastards are stinging people and sending them into anaphylactic shock! I say kill em all and let god sort em out!


Unfortunately, you pretty clearly don't understand. This is not a natural situation; rather it is of man's making. A seal or two in the river is normal. However, Bonneville dam has created a very un-natural situation. The dam forces the salmon to congregate in a pool where they become easy prey for the sea lions. (Bonneville Dam, as you may or may not be aware--is not a natural formation. It is in fact man made. Amazing, I know.) This has had the effect of drawing ever increasing numbers of sea lions in to the river. The number of sea lions in the river is not at all natural, and is having catastrophic effects on native species. In all likelihood the Columbia River Sturgeon will become extinct in the all too near future.

If you think I'm being alarmist with warnings of extinction, you might want to consider that it has happened before. This exact same situation has already resulted in extinction events for other species.

I'm pretty liberal when it comes to the environment. But to maintain the planet's diversity of species when Man changes the natural order requires Man to help keep the balance. Un-informed people who consider themselves environmentalists can do huge damage to the environment. Seeking to protect sea lions because they are "cute" threatens our planet more than any number of SUVs. Politicians almost never do the right thing--they only do what gets them re-elected. They fear the large number of ignorant voters who don't want sea lions harmed.

Sea lions are not even close to endangered. They are breeding in such large numbers that their un-natural presence in fresh water bodies is destroying the delicate balance in those bodies. The answer is cheap and easy--physically. Politically, it's another matter. Shooting a very few sea lions starting at the Bonneville pool and working towards the coast would soon diminish the numbers to a safe level. Trapping and euthanizing a seal to conserve delicate sensibilities eliminates only one seal. Shooting seals in the water would drive many of the remaining seals away from the danger. The smell of dead seal working it's way down the river would drive many more back in to the ocean.

Unfortunately, we'll probably see at least one species go extinct. It's too bad that so many people who care about the environment don't actually take the time to become informed.

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quenyaistar

Since 21 Oct 2011
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PostSat Apr 16, 16 1:20 pm     Reply with quote

Clearly Nak is an ignorant human blaming innocent animals for a man made problem. If you shoot seals others will take there place that's not a solution
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astanton

Since 18 Jul 2013
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PostSat Apr 16, 16 3:32 pm     Reply with quote

I completely get it. I just think its astonishing how humans try to solve problems we created with the same kind of faulty thinking that created the problems in the first place. I have no crush on the sea lion, but the fact that it's not endangered is a poor excuse for open season; cute or not. Deer aren't endangered, but we seem to think the wolves need to go because, what the hell are we going to shoot if the wolves eat them all...?

And I'm completely admitting I have done no research, but I wonder if sea lions at the base of our dams feeding on the smorgasbord we created are the biggest threat to the native species...

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flipper

Since 17 Oct 2011
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PostSat Apr 16, 16 10:27 pm    Resident Fatty in The Dalles Reply with quote

Resident Fatty in The Dalles

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PostSun Apr 17, 16 5:49 am    sea lion sighting Reply with quote

I saw a sea lion sunning itself on the red buoy at Stevenson yesterday. Someone said they are attracted to kites.

BCD131

Since 26 Mar 2013
31 Posts

 



PostSun Apr 17, 16 5:59 am     Reply with quote

Quenyaistar, Nak is talking about you. What is you solution? let the salmon and sturgeon get decimated by the sea lions? pull your head out.
The sea lions do more than just eat until they are full. They start sport killing the fish at the base of these dams. Think I'm wrong? Look at history. Remember Herschel the sea lion who sat at the Ballard Locks and just destroyed salmon for sport. All the bleeding hearts didn't want him shot so they relocated him to NorCal. Two weeks later he's back at the locks sport killing salmon. That's just one example.
Yes, this is a man made problem but we still have a responsibility to try and keep a balance. And clearly the sea lion population is out of balance. Their (not there queny) numbers are out of control and need balancing. That is why we have hunting seasons for other species.

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BCD131

Since 26 Mar 2013
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PostSun Apr 17, 16 6:19 am     Reply with quote

Little off topic but the wolf comment got me thinking. Yes, there are plenty of ignorant hunters and ranchers out there. This guy is not. Interesting article.

http://www.endangered.org/killing-wolves-a-hunter-led-war-against-science-and-willdife/

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BCD131

Since 26 Mar 2013
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PostSun Apr 17, 16 6:25 am     Reply with quote

One more.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/sealions/facts.html

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chrissmack

Since 08 Jun 2005
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portland
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PostSun Apr 17, 16 6:53 am     Reply with quote

Popcorn

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
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PostSun Apr 17, 16 10:07 am     Reply with quote

quenyaistar wrote:
Clearly Nak is an ignorant human blaming innocent animals for a man made problem. If you shoot seals others will take there place that's not a solution


Perhaps it isn't a solution; we can't know for sure because it hasn't been tried. I believe it is worth a try for the reasons I listed in my post. What is your solution?

astanton wrote:
... I have no crush on the sea lion, but the fact that it's not endangered is a poor excuse for open season; cute or not. ...

And I'm completely admitting I have done no research, but I wonder if sea lions at the base of our dams feeding on the smorgasbord we created are the biggest threat to the native species...


I'm not for declaring open season, please note that in my post I said "shooting a very few". Right now, the Columbia is a predator free zone with easy prey. The sturgeon are completely defenseless against sea lions and the breeding population is being decimated. (You might want to Google just how long a sturgeon takes to grow to breeding size. Many, many, many years.) So yes, it is logical to assume the sea lions are the #1 threat to the survival of the Columbia river sturgeon.

Wolves are an entirely different subject with unique problems and solutions. As much as I care about the issue, it doesn't affect kiteboarding, so the discussion really doesn't belong here.

Anyone who has spent a lot of time on the river over the years knows that the sea lion population is quite literally exploding. 10 years ago the sea lions were already a problem, and yet there were so few that unless you were in the middle of a salmon run a sighting was very rare. Three years ago you'd see one every now and then. last year, you saw them all the time. This year? You see them everywhere and all the time. Native species simply can not support the predation of this un-natural sea lion population.

The one solution that is cheap, easy, and most likely to work is not politically feasible because too many people want to stick their head in the sand and pretend the problem will go away. Ridiculously expensive, stupid, and completely ineffective solutions have been put in place instead. All to appease those who can't stomach the way nature is supposed to work. (Virtually all death in nature is horrible.) Sea lions are killed, but are not killed in a manner which might scare the remaining sea lions to leave on their own. Can't offend delicate sensibilities. Screw reality. In the mean time, nobody cares that the Columbia River Sturgeon might be driven to extinction. Why? Because the sea lion is cute and sturgeon are not. Yeah, that's sensible. Rolling Eyes

As long as the Columbia is a safe environment with easy prey, the sea lion population will grow. The ONLY variable we can control without screwing things up worse is the safety level for the sea lions. (BTW, everyone does realize sharks eat seals in the ocean, right?) If sea lions perceive the Columbia as more dangerous than the Pacific, they will leave. Simple. Why is this so hard for people to understand?

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quenyaistar

Since 21 Oct 2011
416 Posts
Cougar, WA
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PostSun Apr 17, 16 10:56 am     Reply with quote

The real problem is to many humans, pollution, and over fishing.

My solution would be to temporarily harness the power of all the folks out their that think killing is the answer. If all you gun lovers want to take one for the team and do the world a favor turn those guns on yourselves and pull the trigger, because of all the problems we currently face over population is the biggest. Just to many cooks in the kitchen. To many lazy entitled opinions. Since I believe in reincarnation I dont think this is as harsh as some might think, but just to be clear my tongue is in cheek on this point. This is a harsh solution and is not necessary but our poor leadership that is dead set on maintaining a consumer society, because those that elected them are dead set on maintaining a consumer society leaves little other choice.

Second stop electing leaders that allow large scale net fishing, bottom drag net fishing, garbage dumping in the ocean, and prescription medicine to be flushed down toilets. Put economic sanctions on foreign leaders that allow this crap to go on.

Get rid of Corporations.

Take financial influence out of elections.

Get rid of really rich top 2% type humans by taxing them down to the rest of us. Folks don't like to hear this but you also have to cap the top end of what a human can earn as well, this is the only way to keep it fair down here. Remember anything in excess will make you sick and or crazy.

Pay every worker in the world at least a living wage no matter how crazy lazy they may be. Otherwise we have to collectively pay to support them and that is not fair to people working and pulling their weight. Letting people become depressed drug abusers living and begging on the streets is not a solution and costs more than simply paying a fair living wage.

Make it so if you live in a country, you pay taxes in that country and if you live in a country you can only own a business in that country. This would have to be for all countries not just America. This will cut way back on exploitation of the earth and our fellow humans.

Keep phasing out dams, which we are very slowly doing. Speed it up.

Stop consuming fish till this happens.

This wont happen because their are to many people, and to few are willing to make the hard decisions and sacrifices necessary to allow our current population to co exist with our wild animal friends and each other.

One last thought for all you capitalism shouters. America is not a capitalist society, it is a hybrid of many ism's of which capitalism is but one part.

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
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PostSun Apr 17, 16 11:08 am     Reply with quote

quenyaistar wrote:
The real problem is to many humans, pollution, and over fishing.

My solution would be to temporarily harness the power of all the folks out their that think killing is the answer. If all you gun lovers want to take one for the team and do the world a favor turn those guns on yourselves and pull the trigger, because of all the problems we currently face over population is the biggest. Just to many cooks in the kitchen. To many lazy entitled opinions. Since I believe in reincarnation I dont think this is as harsh as some might think, but just to be clear my tongue is in cheek on this point. This is a harsh solution and is not necessary but our poor leadership that is dead set on maintaining a consumer society, because those that elected them are dead set on maintaining a consumer society leaves little other choice.

Second stop electing leaders that allow large scale net fishing, bottom drag net fishing, garbage dumping in the ocean, and prescription medicine to be flushed down toilets. Put economic sanctions on foreign leaders that allow this crap to go on.

Get rid of Corporations.

Take financial influence out of elections.

Get rid of really rich top 2% type humans by taxing them down to the rest of us. Folks don't like to hear this but you also have to cap the top end of what a human can earn as well, this is the only way to keep it fair down here. Remember anything in excess will make you sick and or crazy.

Pay every worker in the world at least a living wage no matter how crazy lazy they may be. Otherwise we have to collectively pay to support them and that is not fair to people working and pulling their weight. Letting people become depressed drug abusers living and begging on the streets is not a solution and costs more than simply paying a fair living wage.

Make it so if you live in a country, you pay taxes in that country and if you live in a country you can only own a business in that country. This would have to be for all countries not just America. This will cut way back on exploitation of the earth and our fellow humans.

Keep phasing out dams, which we are very slowly doing. Speed it up.

Stop consuming fish till this happens.

This wont happen because their are to many people, and to few are willing to make the hard decisions and sacrifices necessary to allow our current population to co exist with our wild animal friends and each other.

One last thought for all you capitalism shouters. America is not a capitalist society, it is a hybrid of many ism's of which capitalism is but one part.


And not even one attempt at a solution for the sea lion problem. Problems are fixed one at a time by people who can stay on task...

quenyaistar wrote:
To many lazy entitled opinions.


Although we are agreed on that point. Wink

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quenyaistar

Since 21 Oct 2011
416 Posts
Cougar, WA
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PostSun Apr 17, 16 11:18 am     Reply with quote

I should add shooting seals at the dam is a viable immediate temporary band aide solution, but that's it. I prefer real positive long sighted solutions. This is a band aide solution which our govt excels at and is why they currently suck so hard and long.

Bringing wolves back then killing them because they do what wolves do is asinine. Reimburse the farmer for his cow and move on. Plus give a cowboy a living wage to keep an eye on your precious cows. Duh!

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user124

Since 02 Aug 2012
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Portland
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PostSun Apr 17, 16 11:25 am     Reply with quote

quenyaistar wrote:
The real problem is to many humans, pollution, and over fishing.

My solution would be to temporarily harness the power of all the folks out their that think killing is the answer. If all you gun lovers want to take one for the team and do the world a favor turn those guns on yourselves and pull the trigger, because of all the problems we currently face over population is the biggest. Just to many cooks in the kitchen. To many lazy entitled opinions. Since I believe in reincarnation I dont think this is as harsh as some might think, but just to be clear my tongue is in cheek on this point. This is a harsh solution and is not necessary but our poor leadership that is dead set on maintaining a consumer society, because those that elected them are dead set on maintaining a consumer society leaves little other choice.

Second stop electing leaders that allow large scale net fishing, bottom drag net fishing, garbage dumping in the ocean, and prescription medicine to be flushed down toilets. Put economic sanctions on foreign leaders that allow this crap to go on.

Get rid of Corporations.

Take financial influence out of elections.

Get rid of really rich top 2% type humans by taxing them down to the rest of us. Folks don't like to hear this but you also have to cap the top end of what a human can earn as well, this is the only way to keep it fair down here. Remember anything in excess will make you sick and or crazy.

Pay every worker in the world at least a living wage no matter how crazy lazy they may be. Otherwise we have to collectively pay to support them and that is not fair to people working and pulling their weight. Letting people become depressed drug abusers living and begging on the streets is not a solution and costs more than simply paying a fair living wage.

Make it so if you live in a country, you pay taxes in that country and if you live in a country you can only own a business in that country. This would have to be for all countries not just America. This will cut way back on exploitation of the earth and our fellow humans.

Keep phasing out dams, which we are very slowly doing. Speed it up.

Stop consuming fish till this happens.

This wont happen because their are to many people, and to few are willing to make the hard decisions and sacrifices necessary to allow our current population to co exist with our wild animal friends and each other.

One last thought for all you capitalism shouters. America is not a capitalist society, it is a hybrid of many ism's of which capitalism is but one part.


Dude, you total lost me when you started talking about suicide and reincarnation to address overpopulation. Shocked Rolling Eyes You are as extreme as the tea party people, just on the other end of the political spectrum. We need pragmatic solutions. Lunatic rants like this just polarize the discussion and so nothing ever gets done.

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Ho-Toe

Since 30 Apr 2014
231 Posts
pissed-off science guy like Bill Nye
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PostSun Apr 17, 16 11:29 am    Lobos Reply with quote

Interesting discussion. I don't get up to the hood much, so the sea lion population explosion is something I've not witnessed firsthand...

What's interesting to me (being more coastally-oriented) is that this explosion coincides with several very hard years in the ocean for these 'charismatic' critters. They cannot find enough food to eat in the ocean. Tales abound of underweight juveniles hauling out, exhausted, aboard all manner of vessels. Lots of dead ones on W coast beaches, malnourished...

So the sea lions have done what's only natural: they've gone to where the fish are. The problem is that the fish are no longer where they naturally were--they're congregating below a manmade channel obstruction. And I won't even go into the subject of the hatchery-supported buffet line, but suffice it to say that that has only exacerbated this problem.

Life has gotten kinda complicated, hasn't it? Wink

Last edited by Ho-Toe on Sun Apr 17, 16 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total

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