Is strutless ready for primetime?

voy-tech · Tue Apr 21, 15 8:08 am

Again thanks for the awesome feedback, love this community Smile

As for my preferences I mostly like flat water trying new tricks and goofing around. I did try wave couple of times last year and it was fun, although my skills are not yet on a comfortable surf level (I have no previous wave surfing experience) so it's more of a scary fun. I very rarely drop my kites - if i don't try kiteloops or something new - my kites usually stay dry through the day, but one thing I'm always a little afraid of is dropping the kite in light wind and not being able to relaunch it while the current takes me away of the beach/landing zone. But being an engineer I do feel like the strutless kites should as Stringy said like to fly more than heavier kites in light winds.
Stringy - I would like to take you up on the offer of flying your BRM next time I see you in HR (or SI/Jones if you go up there as well).

Btw. have anyone flown both BRM Cloud and Naish Trip in the 12m size? I'm interested in how those two compare against each other.

J.P. · Since 10 Mar 2005 638 Posts Addicted

Sorry to go OT, but, you have an eye for photography! Nice work!

http://behindtheviewfinder.com/about/

voy-tech · Tue Apr 21, 15 11:01 am

kss · Since 24 Apr 2006 613 Posts pdx Addicted

Make sure you throw a 12m Solo into your mix of demos. I just sold my 12m Solo to a guy who has a 10m Trip. He wanted the Solo because of the single strut making it easier to relaunch in light wind and especially if you get water on the canopy. I agree with him and have flown the Cloud once or twice. IMHO the Solo gives you most of the benefits of a strutless kite... but also with a strut to give stability and easier relaunch. my 2 cents.

Oh, and I will add another 12m Solo back into the quiver prolly later this year. Needed some cash b/c I got screwed on taxes last week.

Sella · Tue Apr 21, 15 11:56 am

Dern · Since 11 Jul 2010 544 Posts Vancouver, WA Addicted

Here's some light wind kite food for thought:

I have personally flown a Blade Fat Lady (gen 1), Stringy's big 13 or 14m Cloud gen1 (once), demo'd a 14m OR Prodigy, demo'd a 14m SS RPM, owned a 1st gen 15m OR Flite, previously owned a 14m Bandit5, and now own/use a 17m OR Flite Gen2.

I'm about 200 lbs + gear, and my goal for the light wind kite was to get out in Kalama/Woodland/Frenchman's Bar where the wind is often on the borderline of being able to ride on normal 12m-14m kites with big boards/surfboards. After going through the gamut of testing I decided on going with a big 17m kite for a few reasons based on my experiences:

I like the Cloud's for light wind, nimble in the air despite light wind, quick to pump, easy to just set up and go. I was on the verge of buying a 17m Cloud2 but went with the OR Flite because I needed a strutted kite for one simple reason: where I use this kite there are big ships and the channel is somewhat narrow. I needed a kite that I can relaunch very easily and very quickly no matter what. It is harder to keep the kite at the shoreline in Kalama/Woodland than it is at Sauvies and Frenchmans due to the number of fisherman and other people, plus the wind gets weaker, and the ships will put a wind shadow on the shoreline launch spots. So basically I had to go with the kite with the biggest safety factor towards keeping it in the sky and under control.

So those factors may be something to consider for the struts vs no struts decision.

eabmoto · Since 10 May 2012 107 Posts seattle Stoked

I've had a lot of time on the Clouds. Mostly from 7m to 12m. For me the wind range is about the same, but if the wind drops or there's a lull, it's really easy to keep your speed with how fast they turn and the apparent wind you can build up. In good wind they relaunch easily. The leading edge rarely touches the water. In light wind, you just need to drift with the kite, let the canopy left up and it'll roll over no problem. Struts, on other kites, keep the canopy off the water in light wind but they also add a bunch of weight, not so good for light wind re launch. The wing tips stick straight up. They keep the outside of the canopy off the water and let air under just like struts on other kites. I can understand the differences in the way they feel while flying is not for everyone, but what most people say they are afraid of with strutless kites doesn't apply to the Clouds, in my experience. It's often said they flutter under load. They don't, they're rock solid. The trailing edge does flutter when sheeted out too far. This is common because of how little bar movement is needed with these kites. It takes some work overcoming the muscle memory we have from the kites we've been flying for ever. Not everyone will enjoy flying them, but they're awesome kites for those that do.

KOF · Since 30 Mar 2011 51 Posts Seattle

Yes. Strutless kites are totally ready for primetime!

I have a 17m Cloud and a 12m Trip and I handle pass on both kites all the time (blind judge, back to blind, front to blind, etc). On my 17m Cloud I can start practicing wakestyle in about 11mph of wind. I've actually learned a lot of moves on this kite as the crashes in light winds are a lot more mellower (I started trying to get the double half cab last week without success Smile

)

Would I rather do wakestyle on my Parks? Why, yes but as a father with limited riding time having a couple strutless kites in my quiver allows me to ride locally and to progress and have a ton of fun in very light winds. BTW I prefer to ride 26m lines or longer on both of these kites and I find it helps their performance.

Here's how the trip and cloud stack up from my POV:

Wakestyle handle passes: Cloud! It sits further back in the window and the lines go pretty slack once you've loaded and popped properly.
Re-launch: Cloud. I can reluanch this kite in only 6 mph no problem. I drop the kite all the time.
Upwind: Trip
Boosting: About the same
Foiling: Depends on wind about the same

Sasquatch · Since 09 Mar 2005 2058 Posts PNW Bigfoot

So lots of positive replies from the riders from Seattle. I this by chance where the kite designer lives and where they were designed?

A lot of interesting things/claims have been said about them. My one session on a strutless kite was this brand. I think one of Stringy's descriptions of some of the kites downsides "hit the nail on the head" for me.

So are you riders that love the strutless kites planning on riding in the surf with these? Relaunching in the waves/impact zone would seem quite difficult.

And yes, I know Stringy has pics of him riding in the surf with one. . .

I'm on Dern's side (see post above) as to why I think I would prefer kites with struts.

voy-tech · Wed Apr 22, 15 10:12 am

Awesome feedback again Smile

thank all of you - I'll definitely try to get a demo session on both Cloud and Trip but from the looks of it sounds like Cloud 12m should be my next purchase Smile

Btw. I'll definitely try to get a demo on the LF Solo as well, before I make my decision.

stringy · Since 23 Jun 2006 1726 Posts vancouver XTreme Poster

Greg Drexler is the kite designer/owner of Boardriding Maui.
He actually has been in the industry for many years primarily as a designer for Naish before he went on and started his own company.
BRM is based on Maui.
I met him a couple years back and became friends. His stoke meter is always topped off at full. coolest guy I've run into in Maui.

KOF · Since 30 Mar 2011 51 Posts Seattle

yeah. No affiliation with designer. In the summer here in SEA we get a lot of days between 9 and 15 mph so a strutless or big kite is key.

Yes, I have ridden the both the 12m Trip and 8m in waves in Hawaii and crashed them in the surf zaone. Just relaunch quick and no problem.

Squatch I don't care what people ride, just go have fun. So many people get riled up over gear wars and I truly don't get it.

muthergoose · Since 14 Oct 2013 169 Posts East Couve Stoked

One mans trash is another mans treasure.

Sasquatch · Since 09 Mar 2005 2058 Posts PNW Bigfoot

airon^ · Since 07 Aug 2013 289 Posts Durango Obsessed

clouds are popping up everywhere....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=em-subs_digest&v=jryjvF32FJg

Props KOF!..I was wondering about more intense freestyle as I'm headed that way...happy to hear confirmation of my gut feeling that these kites work just fine for multiple applications/riding styles.

Windance Crew · Since 18 Apr 2008 473 Posts Hood River Kite Shop Obsessed

Caution biased retail opinion:

Ocean Rodeo has a light wind kite called the Flite. They reduced the weight but kept some struts.
When I tested the 14.5m2 last year I found it way quicker turning than the other brands I was testing.

Now they make it in a 10 & 12m2 too which suits light air foiling perfect.

Dave
Windance

FlyDunes · Since 09 Oct 2007 1034 Posts Aloha XTreme Poster

I've got a couple of Naish Trips at the end of last season, and I haven't needed or wanted to ride anything else since. I'm very happy with them.

They launch easy, turn on a dime, lots of power, stable, a breeze to pump, and they pack up small. They only draw back I've found is that you have to weight them down even in low teens wind when they are parked on the beach.