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Dern
Since 11 Jul 2010
544 Posts
Vancouver, WA
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 Sun Apr 19, 15 9:02 pm Surfboards / designs that do well in chop? |
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So I decided to take the surfboard out instead of the twin today for a Lot B - Shipwreck downwinder. I was riding a 5'4" Lib-tech Ramp, fun board but at high speeds its very difficult to control (bucks up a lot) in choppy conditions (outside the break, and in gorge conditions). I am thinking its largely because it is a bit too small, and it is very lightweight. After the session I was thinking about what to look for in a surfboard that will handle better in chop - I figured I should consult the local surf gurus here. So, any thoughts?
Last edited by Dern on Mon Apr 20, 15 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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macgruber
Since 06 Dec 2011
490 Posts
SE PDX volcano
Obsessed
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| Mon Apr 20, 15 6:57 am Vert |
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| I'm no surf guru but I love my lib tech Vert with a NSI deck pad. I checked and it's the same exact shape as the Slingshot Tyrant. Josh at Cleanline says he rides these soley. It's flexy like a PU board but tougher and really absorbs chop. Not indestructible though, I have a ding in it from my harness hook. Josh says the Libtech guys were getting into kiting up on the Olympic Peninsula and would probably start making a kite specific version. Funktron is a guru and he rides a 5'0" Ratboy tufflite surfboard which he says is indestructible. |
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AndyD
Since 17 Mar 2008
53 Posts
Bend, OR
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| Mon Apr 20, 15 8:56 am |
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| Try to demo one of the North Pacific boards. I kite mostly in the Seattle area and deal with a lot of chop. I tried a friends NP and really like the way it smoothed out the ride compared to the other directionals I have (Naish Skater, Cabrinha Trigger and an Airush Sector 54). I received my 5'10" Waterbug Venturi from NP the week before my 16 days Maui trip, thank you Art and Jeff! I've had 8 great days on it so far (a week left) and my 50 year old knees are really happy I bought it. If you really want to smooth out the chop learn to ride a foil, there's nothing like it. |
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wylieflyote
Since 30 Jun 2006
1634 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
XTreme Poster
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| Mon Apr 20, 15 9:01 am |
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Another strong vote for the North Pacific Waterbug Venturi. It has changed my whole experience with chop. waves, strong over-power conditions, as well as super-light conditions we get on our bay in Pacific Coast Mexico. Test drive this board. I think Big Winds has one to test.
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scottnorby
Since 23 Sep 2005
538 Posts
Cascadia - Seattle - Encinitas
Addicted
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| Mon Apr 20, 15 2:08 pm |
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This one is not on the market yet.
This is a prototype. But it will be around soon.
I have been riding it the last 4 sessions.
The video is the first session I had on it.
Since this session I have landed many 3 to 5 foot strapless airs---which I was previously not able to do.
It's light, lands soft and steady, and sticks to your feet.
It's only 5 foot.
I have a knee injury (hence the knee brace) and after my sessions on this board I do not feel any knee pain at all.
Shock absorption.
Not sure about full on wave riding unless it's really small?
It's flat, stable, fast and feels like a buoyant skimboard with futures fins.
I have ridden at least a dozen surfboards and this one has a personality all it's own....and I absolutely prefer it in big chop in the puget sound.
Stoked on the silencer board.
https://vimeo.com/124101757
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hilton
Since 15 Aug 2008
787 Posts
Opinionated
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| Mon Apr 20, 15 5:40 pm Re: Surfboards / designs that do well in chop? |
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| Dern wrote: | | I was riding a 5'4" Lib-tech bowl, fun board but at high speeds its very difficult to control... |
Is there a 5'4" Bowl or do you mean the 5'4" Ramp?
How wide is it?
The 5'4" Ramp is a pretty wide board (20.25"), great for light wind and easy to jibe but can be a handful in higher wind. A narrower board (< 19") will generally be much smoother in chop. The width is just as important as length. There are a lot of short boards out there that aren't small at all because they are so wide.
I will also vote for North Pacific. Their PU boards will be a bit heavier but much smoother than most epoxy boards in higher wind and chop. |
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Dern
Since 11 Jul 2010
544 Posts
Vancouver, WA
Addicted
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| Mon Apr 20, 15 6:06 pm |
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| Quote: | | Is there a 5'4" Bowl or do you mean the 5'4" Ramp? |
You are correct, it is a Ramp, not a Bowl. |
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C Johnson
Since 17 Apr 2009
853 Posts
Seattle
Opinionated
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zig zag 158
Since 16 Jul 2012
19 Posts
Vic BC Canada
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| Wed Apr 22, 15 8:49 am |
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| Ocean Rodeo Mako Duke is the ticket! |
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Kmun
Since 05 Jul 2009
250 Posts
Obsessed
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| Wed Apr 22, 15 11:42 am Chop Friendly Shape |
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| C Johnson wrote: | | Heavy, narrow and with lots of rocker will do wonders in chop. At the expense of everything else... |
I agree with most suggestions above except "lots rocker". I believe tail rocker increases chop shock while nose rocker “can” reduce chop shock. The term "rocker" requires dissection.
There are at least two types of undesirable board chop behaviors; vertical impact shock and rail to rail oscillation.
Tail Rocker effects:
Vertical impact shock or “bow slap” (felt by the front foot) is generated when there is instantaneous contact with the non-wetted surface at the bow. If the contours of the unwetted board surface happen to match the contour of the chop face; the impact (just like a belly flop) all at once generates the "slap". The more congruent those two surfaces are when they meet the shorter the time period for any possible deformation of the compliant material (the water). Time period of impact is the operative factor. Extend the time period and distance of this bow surface to water surface introduction and you will reduce the peak negative acceleration (shock). One goal is to deform the offending chop with the bow of board. This deforms the wave (giving time and distance) before your front foot finally passes the chop crest. During this period a compliant (semi flexible/damp) board materials will dissipate shock over time and distance. The “work” performed by the board will reduce the forces the kiter must deal with.
Heavily tail rockered coastal wave shapes; if wound up will ride nose high and smack face to face the offending chop face. Costal wave shapes simply are not a good fit for flat, chop or swell conditions. As for efficiency and glide the general rule is to match the rocker to the surface.
Similar to the problems demonstrated in windsurfing the more Tail rocker [u] the more it will raise the nose of the board when on plane and worse when overpowered. Perfect plane is when there are low incongruence between the board and the water surface. Greater tail rockers with a heavy back foot for most chop condition increases incongruence. If placed in the wrong conditions (flatter water w/chop) will raises the bow up (out of plane) and promotes surface to surface slap. Add the wrong tail profile on the up-wind rail and foot straps placement too far back and you get a hobby horse ride.
The windsurf industry totally hosed itself by promoting "wave boards" for low angle Gorge swell that were actually designed for ideal high angle tight radius hollow coastal wave conditions. These incongruent rockers required constant sail power and could not maintain their momentum (glide phase). I called them "one-turn-wonders" that could not maintain enough glide to link two turns on one swell face. When wound-up they would heel back on the wave rockered tail reducing rail contact and control. A thirty degree up lifted airborne nose would instantaneously meet the similar angled chop face and bang! “Oh! I’m over powered! I’m tail walking! The Chop is bad really bad! I must need a quiver of boards to handle each sail size”. No…A quiver of inappropriate boards for the wrong terrain is bad solution to the problem. |
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C Johnson
Since 17 Apr 2009
853 Posts
Seattle
Opinionated
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Matt V
Since 26 Oct 2014
462 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
Explosive Diarrhea
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| Wed Apr 22, 15 5:48 pm |
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I never liked control. My favorite board is a 5'8" 2012 North whip. I describe this board as "Epileptic". If you think "I am going to turn here" - by the point where you formed the thought for "am" you were already pointing that way. I really think it is fun to have a board that is that snappy. Every other board I have tried, especially tri-fins, bore the heck out of me. I would almost rather be back on a twin-tip. Or, I would actually say that windsurfing would be more fun than kiting. But with a jittery quad under my feet, and a kite in the air, I never want to ride any other way.
Now I use a LF KiteFish (quad fin modified) almost exclusively. I have to force the board to do a little more, but it is an all terrain board tougher than a Doyle board. I can also ram the fins into the beach with no consequences (to the board). So I have down graded, but not repairing boards all the time is somewhat worth it.
My advice is to get the craziest, out of control board you can get, and really push it fast and snappy. At some point your reaction time, timing, and ADD will catch up to what is going on. |
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C Johnson
Since 17 Apr 2009
853 Posts
Seattle
Opinionated
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| Wed Apr 22, 15 6:07 pm |
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I like the 5'2" Cab Secret weapon for similar reasons. Snappy is definitely the right word to describe it. The full outline makes transitions and strapless airs easy too. With that said, my Cab Ace TT is WAY smoother in the chop compared to the SW.
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www.youtube.com/c/christianjohnsons |
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stringy
Since 23 Jun 2006
1726 Posts
vancouver
XTreme Poster
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| Wed Apr 22, 15 8:14 pm |
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hey dern, I have a mako king I tend to go to when its big and choppy at the coast.
I don't have any surfboards with straps so I use this when i need em.
There is no other board that handles chop as well as the OR Mako. period.
well okay maybe a foil board.
I've had makos on my board racks over the years and they are good on those big days. I like how it still rides in the surf. not as bouyant as a surfboard but drives and carves just as good. when conditions change, I go back to strapless but I'll keep the king around for when its big and chopfest at the coast.
If I were you I'd go talk to johnny B at windance. I think his bellacera boards might be the ticket too
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www.jimstringfellow.com |
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Ryan
Since 14 Jul 2005
536 Posts
Oregon
Addicted
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| Thu Apr 23, 15 5:12 am boards |
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Like everyone else has said shape and type of construction really dictate the feel of the board. Poly boards are smoother than epoxy...generally. I would put one vote for the Doyle boards. The core he uses is different than nearly everything else and it really smooth's out the ride due to chop but still has a great surf feel.
I think playing with your position on the board when point sailing can really change how the board interacts with the water as well.
cheers, |
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beech
Since 21 Aug 2010
482 Posts
Longview, WA
Obsessed
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| Thu Apr 23, 15 8:38 am |
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| stringy wrote: |
There is no other board that handles chop as well as the OR Mako. period. |
ditto.
That massive concave combined with massive rocker eats up chop. First time I tried one I thought I was riding on a cushion of air. The next step up in smoothness would have to be a foil. Plus the makos allow you to even out your stance a bit versus a traditional shaped twin tip. Helps if you have knee problems.
So Dern go get one of those new OR Duke boards and I will proceed to borrow it for a demo ride next time your at Jones. 
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Haole |
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Dern
Since 11 Jul 2010
544 Posts
Vancouver, WA
Addicted
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| Thu Apr 23, 15 11:37 am |
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| I'm hoping to demo one next time I'm out in HR. |
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