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Adjustable stopper & NSI Pro Loop Preview
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Hein

Since 08 Mar 2005
1313 Posts

Possessed



PostMon Dec 18, 06 10:02 pm    Adjustable stopper & NSI Pro Loop Preview Reply with quote

I've been setting up some Frenzies for snow and needed
to come up with an adjustable stopper:



It's based on two lines through the bar and then through
a ball and then crossed through a stainless ring. The ring
wedges the lines against the ball and sets it. To move it,
slide the ring away from the ball, move the ball to the
desired location and reset the ring against the ball.

Also shown is the pro-loop I'm working on with NSI. It
has a large fixed (non releasing) loop for easier unhooking
& hooking in. There is a rigid tube wrapped with foam
grip between the loop and the bar which keeps the loop
from flopping when unhooked. The tube can be trimmed
to set the desired distance between the bar and the loop
when unhooked.

The loop shown has a new dual cleat for below the bar sheeting
and fifth line adjustment. A single cleat version for below the
bar sheeting (and pass through fifth) and no cleat version (for
use with above the bar sheeting and pass through fifth) will
also be available.

Comments welcome.

-Hein

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Kataku2k3

Since 14 Aug 2005
3753 Posts
Los Angeles, CA
Videographer



PostMon Dec 18, 06 10:10 pm     Reply with quote

Looks pretty cool! The sheeting throw wouldn't work too great for SLE kites, huh? haha j/k! Wink

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gabe

Since 16 May 2005
475 Posts

Obsessed



PostMon Dec 18, 06 10:58 pm     Reply with quote

is that stopper better than the machined plastic pieces like SS etc? it seems more complicated to me. the SS style seems perfect for holding solidly. the next step is to make it so you can push through with some force, which best claims their latest does. i'm not sure how well. but it does seem easier to just move 1 part than 2.

for the loop, i do really like the below the bar trim. but, if you trim a lot and have a tail hanging out, i could see it getting in the way for unhooking.

i just run figure 8 stopper knots on the end of my lines. simpler, easier to undo, and less weight to hit yourself with. these look okay, but the SS style end is way overkill in my opinion.

make sure the bar hole is big enough for the double lines to pass easily on hard turns without binding. i had a guy drill mine out and widen/taper the exits, so the line runs really smooth.

do you think snowkiting with no safety is safe?

hein, when is the last time you actually sheeted a kite??

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Hein

Since 08 Mar 2005
1313 Posts

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PostMon Dec 18, 06 11:31 pm     Reply with quote

Here's the setup on one of my Frenzy bars:



There's no cleat mounted since sheeting is above the bar and
there's also no fifth. The line is just tied back through a hole above
the loop and the excess wrapped up. This image also shows the
tube that determines the unhooked distance between the loop
and the bar. That and a couple of different loop sizes will allow
riders to fine tune the setup.

Gabe,
This stopper should work as well as the others out there but
I need to try it out and perhaps dial it in a bit. I wanted it
to work with all kinds of bars so I made the cleat action
independent of the bar hole. It's actually an easy DIY
stopper setup.

I'm not keen on loose ends either - knots might be better.
I still prefer my no-tail adjuster and would probably set up
a sheetable bar with that instead of below the bar sheeting.
-Like the ozone pictured. Wihich, BTW, still needs a safety line
that runs along the center line to the brake strap so if you
let go of the bar the kite is on the back lines only.

-Hein

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pkh

Since 27 Feb 2005
6548 Posts
Couve / Hood
Site Lackey



PostTue Dec 19, 06 9:50 am     Reply with quote

My question is: Will you use this Hein or are you sticking by the trusty pulley bar?

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Hein

Since 08 Mar 2005
1313 Posts

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PostTue Dec 19, 06 10:09 am     Reply with quote

I was looking at the Best and SS stoppers and I think
that my stopper might actually work better. Here's why:


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Kataku2k3

Since 14 Aug 2005
3753 Posts
Los Angeles, CA
Videographer



PostTue Dec 19, 06 11:02 am     Reply with quote

What about the fact that the '06+ SS bars all have "power steering dug outs"? That eliminates the steering tension you're talking about, even when riding against the stopper.

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Hein

Since 08 Mar 2005
1313 Posts

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PostTue Dec 19, 06 11:31 am     Reply with quote

True, the dugout in the bar reduces
steering effort but the stopper spool itself
still creates some kinking when it is
locked against the bar.

You can use your existing stopper and just
trick out your bar with the ProLoop. Unhooking
and hooking back in will never be easier.

-Hein

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Bullroarer Took

Since 07 Feb 2007
3 Posts

Kook



PostWed Feb 07, 07 8:27 am     Reply with quote

Sorry I'm so late to this thread. Love the loop, but...1) I would use it with a Slingshot Surefire spreader and so want it to be even smaller than it is. 2) Why do you need the grip tube part? It takes away from bar travel at what gain? 3) When are they going to be available? I've been checking the NSI page since November and there has been no update.

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stringy

Since 23 Jun 2006
1724 Posts
vancouver
XTreme Poster



PostWed Feb 07, 07 3:08 pm     Reply with quote

Quote:
is that stopper better than the machined plastic pieces like SS etc? it seems more complicated to me. the SS style seems perfect for holding solidly. the next step is to make it so you can push through with some force, which best claims their latest does. i'm not sure how well. but it does seem easier to just move 1 part than 2.



Gabe,
I have made some stoppers in my lab that will allow you to ride against the bar, but will also allow you to push the bar away without first having to move the stopper. Here's an image of what it looks like. It doesn't show much but maybe I'll try and take some better pictures of it. This stopper has proven to work with many style bars, but it is still designed to work with a 2-line thru the bar setup. I have designed it to be used with the 3/16" dia. Amsteel, but will design another to be used with 1/4" dia.
If you want a stopper that will punch out even under a load, this may be the stopper you desire. I used this stopper last week while kiting in Baja.

Hein,
I mean no disrespect by trying to promote something I have developed, I just caught on to what Gabe mentioned and wanted to address this type of stopper. I like the simplicity of your system, it looks like it can be built using off the shelf components from a marine supply store and then assembled together on the rope. This is a very quick and good solution if you don't have a machine shop handy.

Jim


   stopper.jpg 

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genek

Since 21 Jul 2006
2165 Posts
East Po
KGB



PostWed Feb 07, 07 5:31 pm     Reply with quote

Hein,

Is there a reason for the fixed loop without a safety release? It seems like you could use something like the '06 SS chicken loop release (or any other that you prefer) without sacrificing too much performance. I don't know about others, but it's nice to know that you can eject from the chicken loop if necessary. Am I missing something?

Thanks.

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Hein

Since 08 Mar 2005
1313 Posts

Possessed



PostWed Feb 07, 07 6:40 pm     Reply with quote

That's the nicest home made (or should I say lab made) stopper I've
seen. Seems everyone is making some kind of 2-line-jam-against-the-bar
stopper. I must say that some of the production ones I've seen are down
right clunky looking. They're all kinda BIG if you ask me.

It looks like you have addressed that issue and you should tool that
thing and start selling them retail and to the kite companies. Just don't
quit your day job. Razz

Personally though, I'm not fond of the jam-against-the-bar method. Too
many variables for a universal device. Having to spread the lines apart
makes for a nice place to get a finger stuck. I like to design with off-the-
shelf components to reduce tooling costs. Then if you sell some, you're
profitable right off the bat. Those design criteria and an AHA moment is
what ultimately led me to the Ball & Ring stopper. I'm trying to get NSI
to offer them with a target price of $10 retail.

As for the loop without a release. I'm not convinced that those systems
are safer. Also, if I design and offer a release then I'm obligated to make
it fail-safe. I'm not sure that is possible. You can always use a spreader
bar with a releasable hook.

Best regards,
Hein

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gabe

Since 16 May 2005
475 Posts

Obsessed



PostWed Feb 07, 07 8:30 pm     Reply with quote

jim,

that looks good. sign me up for the 1/4" model. i like how there isn't a flange on the bottom like the current one. although it makes it easier to push up, it's awkward to steer the bar against it b/c the fulcrum moves back and forth. waroos don't fly well against the stopper anyways though.

is that still easy to slide back and forth by hand quickly? looks like the lines twist a lot. actually, it's probably good to have a bit of resistance. my current stopper is so easy to move that on a couple really high speed crashes the water impact has slid it down. that could result in a nightmare in the right condition.

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stringy

Since 23 Jun 2006
1724 Posts
vancouver
XTreme Poster



PostWed Feb 07, 07 10:47 pm     Reply with quote

Quote:
Seems everyone is making some kind of 2-line-jam-against-the-bar
stopper.

The beauty of this stopper is it does not jam against the bar. It was designed to hold it's position with bar pressure against it, but does not rely on "pinching" the lines between the stopper and bar.

Quote:
is that still easy to slide back and forth by hand quickly? looks like the lines twist a lot. actually, it's probably good to have a bit of resistance. my current stopper is so easy to move that on a couple really high speed crashes the water impact has slid it down. that could result in a nightmare in the right condition.

This stopper works very different from last years' Wiley stoppers. Wiley stoppers rely on pinching the lines between stopper shaft and bar hole. These new stoppers are designed to be easily pulled down into position and will not accidently slide down.

Quote:
that looks good. sign me up for the 1/4" model.

Enough on this, Gabe I will get you on my list.

Quote:
That's the nicest home made (or should I say lab made) stopper I've
seen.


Hein, thanks for the compliment.


Jim

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Bullroarer Took

Since 07 Feb 2007
3 Posts

Kook



PostThu Feb 08, 07 9:39 am     Reply with quote

Bullroarer Took wrote:
Sorry I'm so late to this thread. Love the loop, but...1) I would use it with a Slingshot Surefire spreader and so want it to be even smaller than it is. 2) Why do you need the grip tube part? It takes away from bar travel at what gain? 3) When are they going to be available? I've been checking the NSI page since November and there has been no update.


Sorry to quote myself, but Hein got distracted by that new stopper (which looks very nice btw) and never answered my questions.

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Hein

Since 08 Mar 2005
1313 Posts

Possessed



PostThu Feb 08, 07 10:23 am     Reply with quote

Sorry about that, BT.

1. The point of a bigger loop is to make it easier to unhook and hook back
in. If you are not into unhooking and riding unhooked a lot then this loop is
probably not for you.

2. The grip tube keeps the kite from over sheeting when you unhook and
gives you something to grab above the loop when you need to hook back
in or want to 'choke the chicken' when unhooked on wave. There is a hard
tube inside the grip that can be cut to the desired length. I've found that
the right loop to bar distance is critical for comfortable riding.

3. Call me to discuss the configuration you want and then I'll ask NSI to
make it up for you.

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tinyE

Since 21 Jan 2006
2004 Posts
not really an
XTreme Poster



PostThu Feb 08, 07 12:58 pm     Reply with quote

stringy... i need a stopper for my 06 Best bar. Do you have an extra lying around you want to sell? I'm lazy... Smile

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