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Da Yoda
Since 12 Mar 2009
79 Posts
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Mon Jun 19, 17 7:22 pm |
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Quote: | 1. Wear a PFD, Life vest. It keeps you up and you will not struggle as much to self rescue. Doesn't matter how good of a swimmer you are, or that you think you don't need it. Shit gets real when you are in the water a while. |
Can someone please recommend a PFD that's made for non-calm water (Type 1) conditions and is waist harness compatible? Or even a Type 2 or 3 PFD for calm water since something is better than nothing. I can't find any. Thanks! |
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Scriffler
Since 03 Jul 2005
581 Posts
LYLE
Addicted
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Da Yoda
Since 12 Mar 2009
79 Posts
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Mon Jun 19, 17 8:42 pm |
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Nope! Ion vests are only PPE rated and are not considered a PFD (by Canadian and US standards). It's only only a buoyancy aid at best... not much better than an impact vest. Unless it's has 22lb rated foam or at least 15.5, it ain't shit for saving your life in turbulent water.
So my original question still stands? |
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Slappysan
Since 13 Jun 2012
309 Posts
Obsessed
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Mon Jun 19, 17 10:06 pm |
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Take your harness to REI and try on one of these:
https://www.nrs.com/product/40013.03/nrs-ninja-pfd
If you really need more than a 50N buoyance aid though, get a pair of Dakine Nitrous Shorts, they are quite nice and allow for most CG PFDs. |
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Scriffler
Since 03 Jul 2005
581 Posts
LYLE
Addicted
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Mon Jun 19, 17 10:32 pm |
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This is what I use in outer reef situations and have used it kiting once but never inflated it. Have gone down on huge ones and a 20 second hold down becomes a 3 second hold down. You could wear it kiting and inflate it if you were in trouble. It even has an air tube you can blow to inflate. Waiting for the new quiksilver one that has four inflations, it should be available within 6 months. Probably about 500 bucks maybe a bit more.
http://towsurfer.com/2017/04/quatic-inflatable-surf-vest/
http://www.quiksilver.com/airlift-vest/#home |
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macgruber
Since 06 Dec 2011
490 Posts
SE PDX volcano
Obsessed
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Tue Jun 20, 17 5:30 am Dakine Surface with a bright helmet |
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I love my Surface impact vest. Not coast guard approved but it's thick and waist harness compatible. It adds warmth and definitely softens a big landing. It's pretty swimable too. I get a size up as they run small. All my gear is black so in the ocean or on bigger days I wear a bright helmet which helps keep my Ocean Rodeo neoprene cap on. The combo is warm, easy to spot and a lot less restrictive than a hooded wetsuit |
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FreerideWhiteSalmon
Since 17 May 2012
64 Posts
CGKA Member
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Tue Jun 20, 17 6:47 am |
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Da Yoda wrote: | Quote: | 1. Wear a PFD, Life vest. It keeps you up and you will not struggle as much to self rescue. Doesn't matter how good of a swimmer you are, or that you think you don't need it. Shit gets real when you are in the water a while. |
Can someone please recommend a PFD that's made for non-calm water (Type 1) conditions and is waist harness compatible? Or even a Type 2 or 3 PFD for calm water since something is better than nothing. I can't find any. Thanks! |
I've been wondering the same thing - considering finding one of these: https://kiteboarding.com/proddetail.asp?prod=np2016_high_hook_vest
Wondering if a local shop has them? |
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Da Yoda
Since 12 Mar 2009
79 Posts
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Tue Jun 20, 17 9:45 am |
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My post was somewhat of a trick question, knowing that this type of item does not currently exist. But trying to keep an open mind and the possibility that I've missed something, I asked again.
It really frustrates me when I see people preaching that we should be all wearing PFDs and for some reason they don't seem to realize (or understand) that none exist for those that use waist harnesses.
Like mentioned above, I've tried using a boardshort harness, but hated it. I tried using a kayak PFD and I felt like I was wearing a BabyBjorn and a CamelBak at the same time... just awful!
They only item that's remotely close is the Quatic Inflatable Surf vest, but like many, I don't have $500 for "insurance". Also the pull tabs and buckled strap looks like line snags and I don't like that it needs to be deployed to work.
So to those that like to preach PFD safety, be aware that the majority of kiters globally wear waist harnesses and currently there's nothing available for people like us.
None of these brands make a waist harness compatible PFD that meets a kiter's "real" needs... especially in turbulent water, so don't be fooled:
Dakine, Ion, North, Mystic, LF, Prolimit, NPSurf, and ProMotion. |
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Johnb
Since 02 Aug 2010
494 Posts
Obsessed
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Tue Jun 20, 17 10:05 am |
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I spoke with a Factory Rep a few years ago who said they were working on something for kiting that would meet PFD requirements. He said it was difficult to make something that is both functional and compliant.
I work at a certification organization and have some idea of requirements, although I am no expert. I agree it will be difficult to make something that is compliant with requirements and will work for kiting. |
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Scriffler
Since 03 Jul 2005
581 Posts
LYLE
Addicted
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FreerideWhiteSalmon
Since 17 May 2012
64 Posts
CGKA Member
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Tue Jun 20, 17 1:11 pm |
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Da Yoda wrote: |
My post was somewhat of a trick question, knowing that this type of item does not currently exist. But trying to keep an open mind and the possibility that I've missed something, I asked again.
It really frustrates me when I see people preaching that we should be all wearing PFDs and for some reason they don't seem to realize (or understand) that none exist for those that use waist harnesses.
Like mentioned above, I've tried using a boardshort harness, but hated it. I tried using a kayak PFD and I felt like I was wearing a BabyBjorn and a CamelBak at the same time... just awful!
They only item that's remotely close is the Quatic Inflatable Surf vest, but like many, I don't have $500 for "insurance". Also the pull tabs and buckled strap looks like line snags and I don't like that it needs to be deployed to work.
So to those that like to preach PFD safety, be aware that the majority of kiters globally wear waist harnesses and currently there's nothing available for people like us.
None of these brands make a waist harness compatible PFD that meets a kiter's "real" needs... especially in turbulent water, so don't be fooled:
Dakine, Ion, North, Mystic, LF, Prolimit, NPSurf, and ProMotion. |
Maybe your question is so tricky that I'm still missing it. I thought the design of the NP product I linked would work for kiting given its design to accommodate the harness? |
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Da Yoda
Since 12 Mar 2009
79 Posts
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Wed Jun 21, 17 8:41 am |
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FreerideWhiteSalmon wrote: | Maybe your question is so tricky that I'm still missing it. I thought the design of the NP product I linked would work for kiting given its design to accommodate the harness? |
It may help to understand US and EU ratings for floatation vests in more detail.
In the US a Type1 (22lb) foam vest is rated at 100n (n=newtons). Type1 is best for turbulent water conditions. (Conditions most kiters are exposed too)
Type2&3 (15.5lb) foam vests are rated at 70n which are best for calm water conditions and/or near shore activity. (Not as good for our conditions, but better than nothing)
European standards are similar, but use a CE rating. They have 4 ratings (275,150,100,50). 70 is not available!
CE100 = 100n (22lb)
CE50 = 50n (11lb)
The NPSurf vest (and similar ones from Ion, Mystic, and Prolimit) are all rated CE50, which is less than a Type2&3 vest (70n). You're basically getting an impact vest, not a flotation vest. Don't be fooled!
So to summarize, NO manufacturer makes a waist harness compatible PFD that's rated for the conditions we kite in. The more turbulent the water, the more PFD you need. |
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FreerideWhiteSalmon
Since 17 May 2012
64 Posts
CGKA Member
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Wed Jun 21, 17 7:44 pm |
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Da Yoda wrote: | FreerideWhiteSalmon wrote: | Maybe your question is so tricky that I'm still missing it. I thought the design of the NP product I linked would work for kiting given its design to accommodate the harness? |
It may help to understand US and EU ratings for floatation vests in more detail.
In the US a Type1 (22lb) foam vest is rated at 100n (n=newtons). Type1 is best for turbulent water conditions. (Conditions most kiters are exposed too)
Type2&3 (15.5lb) foam vests are rated at 70n which are best for calm water conditions and/or near shore activity. (Not as good for our conditions, but better than nothing)
European standards are similar, but use a CE rating. They have 4 ratings (275,150,100,50). 70 is not available!
CE100 = 100n (22lb)
CE50 = 50n (11lb)
The NPSurf vest (and similar ones from Ion, Mystic, and Prolimit) are all rated CE50, which is less than a Type2&3 vest (70n). You're basically getting an impact vest, not a flotation vest. Don't be fooled!
So to summarize, NO manufacturer makes a waist harness compatible PFD that's rated for the conditions we kite in. The more turbulent the water, the more PFD you need. |
Thanks so much for the explanation! Much appreciated. |
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deminimis
Since 15 Jul 2014
326 Posts
On the Rocks
Obsessed
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Thu Jun 22, 17 9:57 am |
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Thanks for sharing and glad it worked out. Damn scary that. |
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toesinthesand
Since 08 Sep 2009
167 Posts
Hood River
Stoked
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Thu Jun 22, 17 11:33 am self rescue in BIG knarly conditions |
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Well, we all love those big knarly conditions. First of all I'm glad all ended OK and thanks for all the thoughtful responses. Lots to think about. I have been reflecting on this as apparently many of you have. I think besides testing out gear that has been MacGyvered, Here is what I come away with: I will definitely not go out alone, I will definitely wear something bright over my wetsuit. I am considering some kind of flotation device. But most of all I will try to make a calm smarter choice when things go wrong. As he did say he thought he was too focused on flying the kite back. I also tend to make a snap decision knowing the inherant dangers in kiting. And looking back a few times those snap decisions were not the best. But probably just a 10-20 second stop, breathe and think would have given a better result. It's hard to always think ahead what could go wrong. especially when we are jonesing to go get it. |
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