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Kmun
Since 05 Jul 2009
250 Posts
Obsessed
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 Mon Aug 31, 15 12:48 pm Qualify via comparison |
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| toddjb wrote: |
Bar pressure, turning speed, all good. Very well behaved.
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"Good" & Well behaved" are subjective. Can you relate the behaviors to known standards (previous products)?
1. Is (1) speed and (2) bar pressure greater or less than the 2012 Rally, 2014 Rally or RPM's?
2. Can you rank the SST's (3) up-wind abilities compared to the 2012 Rally, 2014 Rally or RPM's?
Thank you for all your contributions. |
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Justsmile
Since 20 Jul 2009
1523 Posts
Not Portland
XTreme Poster
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| Mon Aug 31, 15 2:53 pm |
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I thought it was quite interesting when talking to Tony L that if you pull more than 3 inches of trim on their kites the upwind ability goes kaput!!!!! Ride powered up or stay on the beach it seems:-) I can tell you with the new rally it is bigger and flies more powerful than the 2013's. The new 12 Rally flies like a 13 or 14, has lighter bar pressure than the 2013 rally's and Rpm and has quite a range. Flew it from 12-26 the other day and I could have flown it in more!! I have a 9 and am waiting to have fun on that one. I have noticed that you need to keep tension on the lines when flying it if you want it to turn or drift which the SST's will do unsheeted and would be nice. Just my two cents on the new rally ; now back to the SST!!!
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Take a breath; inhale |
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97031
Since 22 May 2008
145 Posts
Hood River
Stoked
CGKA Member
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| Mon Aug 31, 15 3:00 pm |
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| Trim cleat can be used as a stopper ball but IS NOT an active stopper ball, meaning that it can be adjusted up or down for throw when tension is not on the lines, but will not slide back up with tension. |
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toddjb
Since 16 Oct 2007
271 Posts
MD
Obsessed
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| Tue Sep 01, 15 12:11 am |
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| voy-tech wrote: | | toddjb wrote: | | Also got to try the new Sentinel Bar. I bought it for the below the bar swivel, which worked perfectly for me. Loved it. I missed not having a stopper ball. |
Hi - did you try to use the depower cleat as a stopper ball? From the video review that Realwatersports did sounded like it can be used like that, but I wonder if it actually works in real life. |
Yes, I did. You can slide the cleat down under load, but you can not push it away. To push it away you have to unload the center lines. So you can grab the center lines above the cleat and then you can push it up. It's not ideal to do and I wouldn't recommend it as a sliding stopper ball. Note that if you do move it down while riding for some reason and you didn't mean to, you can still pull in the depower as needed.
I think it is really intended to just set the depower throw to your personal preference or arm length before you are riding.
| 97031 wrote: | | Trim cleat can be used as a stopper ball but IS NOT an active stopper ball, meaning that it can be adjusted up or down for throw when tension is not on the lines, but will not slide back up with tension. |
Exactly.
| Kmun wrote: | | toddjb wrote: |
Bar pressure, turning speed, all good. Very well behaved.
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"Good" & Well behaved" are subjective. Can you relate the behaviors to known standards (previous products)?
1. Is (1) speed and (2) bar pressure greater or less than the 2012 Rally, 2014 Rally or RPM's?
2. Can you rank the SST's (3) up-wind abilities compared to the 2012 Rally, 2014 Rally or RPM's?
Thank you for all your contributions. |
Yes, it's all subjective and up to personal preference. I suppose I mean it is just a very stable kite. It doesn't backstall, doesn't dive to one side or the other when you let go of the bar, it is very precise without being twitchy, if that makes any sense. Regarding your questions;
1) I owned the 2012 Rally. Loved it, it was super light. The SST has more bar pressure and doesn't turn as fast if I recall (it's been a while). But, as you know the 2012 Rally took it to the extreme. The SST turns fast and has light bar feel...it's less than the current Rallys. I can't tell you how it is compares to a similar RPM.
2) No. I didn't have any issues going upwind, even when depowered. Maybe I can answer this when I have more time on the kite. For me it did everything I wanted nicely. I was going upwind just as well as the other people I was riding with and at times I had the kite depowered. I think you're getting into nuances that the kite designer would notice, but most riders would not.
| ulx wrote: | ...Have you seen this?
SS_BULLETIN_FNL_MF.jpg |
I had not. THANK YOU! I'll check my bars this week. |
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docwild
Since 02 Sep 2015
103 Posts
Stoked
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| Wed Sep 02, 15 9:16 am sst wave |
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I've notices The SST Wave kites fly very rough when overpowered/depowered. So rough I feel vibration in the bar, which I think is the bungee flexing in the bridle. The kite changes position in the window when depowered, which is why they don't go upwind well. I don't notice this with the Rally, even when depowered.
I also think that the SST Wave turns very quickly (the 10 turns as quick as my 8 Rally), but the Wave seem true to size. However since the Rallys is more powerful, esp. on the low end, I'm usually on a smaller kite size when using the Rally compared to the Wave (which sort of renders the quicker turn of the SST Wave moot).
Anyone else have similar experiences? |
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eric
Since 13 Jan 2006
1804 Posts
XTreme Poster
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| Wed Sep 02, 15 10:01 am |
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I always fly the smallest possible kite so I have yet to depower it much. That said, the SST does not go upwind as steeply as the RPM. However, it sits deeper in the pocket and drifts better, basically zero flutter, and with more of a pivot turn. For me, the trade off is worth it.
Eric |
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Kmun
Since 05 Jul 2009
250 Posts
Obsessed
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| Wed Sep 02, 15 2:43 pm Clarify |
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| toddjb wrote: |
1...
The SST turns fast and has light bar feel...it's less than the current Rally's.
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Clarify:
When comparing a SST (2016) to a "current" Rally; do you actually mean "current"...as in the 2016 Rally?
I agree; the 2013-2015 Rally's were more "powerful" than 2012 Rally. Seems to me a 2016 Rally changes are meant to resemble the power band of the 2012 Rally's. Testers; do you agree?
I want to build a complete 2016 SS quiver and start at the same high wind tolerance range as a 2012 6m Rally; then work up.
At 165 lbs w/directional surfboard my three kite Quiver could be:
6m 2016 Rally (my most used Gorge size)
9m 2016 SST (Coastal wave/rare Gorge day)
12m 2016 SST (Coastal wave) or possibly a 12 RPM (Coastal wave) but with added turning speed over a large SST
Would these size jumps seem too large?
Would changing around to three different models (performance) really mess with piloting intuition. |
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toddjb
Since 16 Oct 2007
271 Posts
MD
Obsessed
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| Thu Sep 03, 15 6:09 am |
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| Kmun wrote: | | toddjb wrote: |
1...
The SST turns fast and has light bar feel...it's less than the current Rally's.
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Clarify:
When comparing a SST (2016) to a "current" Rally; do you actually mean "current"...as in the 2016 Rally?
I agree; the 2013-2015 Rally's were more "powerful" than 2012 Rally. Seems to me a 2016 Rally changes are meant to resemble the power band of the 2012 Rally's. Testers; do you agree?
I want to build a complete 2016 SS quiver and start at the same high wind tolerance range as a 2012 6m Rally; then work up.
At 165 lbs w/directional surfboard my three kite Quiver could be:
6m 2016 Rally (my most used Gorge size)
9m 2016 SST (Coastal wave/rare Gorge day)
12m 2016 SST (Coastal wave) or possibly a 12 RPM (Coastal wave) but with added turning speed over a large SST
Would these size jumps seem too large?
Would changing around to three different models (performance) really mess with piloting intuition. |
Good questions. I’ll give my opinion, but obviously others will have different perceptions.
I’m talking about current Rallys 2013-2016, in that quote above. But it depends on size, I guess. I haven’t flown the 10M SST back to back with a 9M Rally, which I would like to do. I think it’d be close, as I love the flight characterstics of the 9 Rally, but the SST still has a really smooth precise turn that I like.
So, that’s an interesting quiver… in 2011/2012 Rallys I owned a 6/10/14 quiver. The 10/14 split was solid. The 6/10 jump was too large. In the 2013-2016 sizes, I think a 6/9/12 Rallys would be perfect. But you are talking SSTs (and quoting a size that I don’t think exists yet) which comes in 6/8/10/12.
So, let's see... on your quiver;
(1) I have only flown the 2011 6M Rally. I suspect the 2013-2016 is a hair beefier. You should still be good.
(2) You want SST for your next kite, you're going to have to go 8 or 10. 8 is the call. Even if the 10 is small for it's size, I don't think it's the right jump from a 6....unless that 6 fliest like a 7, and the 10 flies like a 9, then you're solid. 
(3) So, next up after your 8M SST...I'd go with a 12M SST or a 10M Rally...shit, at your weight you could go with 10M SST. I know I'm not helping here... I don't think you need anything bigger than either of those. You are 20 lbs. lighter than me and 12M Rally is all I need. But yeah, 12 RPM would work also. I don't think you'll see a drastic turning speed difference between the two 12s (SST or RPM) but I haven't flown them.
Regarding your earlier question regarding 2012 vs. 2016... The 2016 does not fly like a 2012, even on the tip connection. Think of 2013-2016 is all one series. That is at least my experience on the 12. I saw no differences on close inspection, Tony mentioned there is a 1.5% change in the canopy that is not obvious to the naked eye, well, then just consider the 2016 a slightly tweaked 2015. Don't expect significant changes. 2012 to 2013 was a significant change. The Rally is a great kite. I'm glad there is not a significant change! If it ain't broke, don't f*ck with it.
You'll do fine with a mixed quiver. Maybe a little piloting adjustment if you switch kites mid session with regards to jumping. They'll each have a different sweet spot when sending it. I do like a single type quiver, but I've gone away from it. Right now at 185 lbs my new quiver is 6M RPM, 8M SST, 10M SST, 12M Rally. My rational was that I think nothing beats an RPM in small sizes, nothing beats a Rally in lightwind, and I wanted to try the new SSTs. Oh, and I'm a weekend warrior hack and you probably get more time on the water than me. 
As you may have read above, I have a 9 Rally, I should note that the jump from 6M RPM to 9M Rally was too large...there used to be a 7 in there. LOL Tooooo many kites.... |
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toddjb
Since 16 Oct 2007
271 Posts
MD
Obsessed
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| Fri Sep 04, 15 5:00 am Re: Clarify |
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| Kmun wrote: | ...At 165 lbs w/directional surfboard my three kite Quiver could be:
6m 2016 Rally (my most used Gorge size)
9m 2016 SST (Coastal wave/rare Gorge day)
12m 2016 SST (Coastal wave) or possibly a 12 RPM (Coastal wave) but with added turning speed over a large SST... |
Kmun, I rambled on in that last response, at your weight, I'd do this -
6/8 SST, 10 Rally.
Your most used kites will be the new SSTs which are tuned for Waves and getting great reviews. The 10 Rally has a HUGE range and will fill the gap from your 8M to 12mph wind. That setup would be tits! TITS!! |
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proletariat
Since 22 Feb 2013
102 Posts
Denver, CO
Stoked
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| Fri Sep 04, 15 9:43 am |
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So, not to derail this really good discussion, but is the RPM dead now?
_________________
Pfft... You call that a gust? |
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Jonpnw
Since 22 Jul 2010
1323 Posts
Pacific Northwest
XTreme Poster
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| Fri Sep 04, 15 10:13 am No |
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| Proletariat wrote: | | So, not to derail this really good discussion, but is the RPM dead now? |
The RPM for unhooking & wakestyle
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Join the Columbia Gorge Water Sports Association. http://gorgewindsurfing.org/ |
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bigjohn
Since 13 Mar 2012
663 Posts
Addicted
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| Fri Sep 04, 15 10:35 am |
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| Proletariat wrote: | | So, not to derail this really good discussion, but is the RPM dead now? |
I think I'm going to regret this post tomorrow...
I'm finding that your kite preference is really dictated by your riding style...
For instance I am a strapped surfboard rider that spends most of the time in The Gorge. Thus my idea of the perfect day is 35-45 mph winds and large rolling swell. In these conditions I prefer the RPM because it turns quickly and has good pop which allows me to play around on the swell.
Interestingly these are the same characteristics that a TT rider appreciates in flatwater while riding unhooked.
Thus, when the river is flat and the wind is more in the 20-30 mph range, If I was a TT rider, I would probably like the RPM... however I am not. So I have been switching to the Rally for this range. The giant range of these kites allows me to ride over powered thus allowing for huge floaty jumps. However, Rallys are not necessarily very good if you are performing tricks in the air as your jumps are really generated from raw power of the kite rather than speed and centrifugal force (due to the slowness and heavy bar pressure of the kite it's difficult to quickly adapt the kite in the air).
On a side note, I think the Rally makes gusts feel more powerful as they kind of have a bigger thump. Rather than having a bunch of little quick pops from wind gusts they tend to feel more like a big slow accordion like thump.
In low wind conditions, I still believe in a light wind kite (I like the the turbine) as they tend to have lighter bar pressure and can get you riding in next to nothing.
Now along comes the SST... A kite that has unique wave characteristics and fits somewhere in between the rpm and rally in terms of speed and pop.
Do I want to revisit my kite strategy... perhaps...
Do I want to remove my rpms from my favorite riding days (high wind, big swell)... NO (at least not with an SST) (perhaps I will try a fuel some day and fall in love for this range).
Do I want to replace my Rallys with SSTs on those mid range days... perhaps.
Just my opinion based upon my riding style.
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Kiting starts at 40MPH |
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toddjb
Since 16 Oct 2007
271 Posts
MD
Obsessed
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| Fri Sep 04, 15 10:57 am |
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| bigjohn wrote: | I think I'm going to regret this post tomorrow...
I'm finding that your kite preference is really dictated by your riding style... |
I think you're spot on! 
And you should try the SST... |
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proletariat
Since 22 Feb 2013
102 Posts
Denver, CO
Stoked
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| Fri Sep 04, 15 4:59 pm |
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Oh sorry. I meant, are they making a 2016+ RPM? I haven't seen anything about it.
_________________
Pfft... You call that a gust? |
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knotwindy
Since 25 Sep 2011
598 Posts
Addicted
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| Fri Sep 04, 15 6:32 pm |
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| every year they come come out at a different time than the Rally. Got to do R&D and it takes time. |
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bob
Since 09 Mar 2007
137 Posts
Madison, Wi
Stoked
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proletariat
Since 22 Feb 2013
102 Posts
Denver, CO
Stoked
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| Fri Sep 04, 15 7:38 pm |
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Ah, cool. Thanks. Something else to look forward to. I <3 my RPM.
_________________
Pfft... You call that a gust? |
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