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kochease
Since 03 Jul 2008
760 Posts
In Ft. Stevens, OR
Opinionated
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 Wed May 22, 13 10:26 am Here is the skinny the Jones Beach Rules *Update* |
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From my talkings with the state and the hours of Audio records I've gone thru I see that there has been a very fair and transparent process on coming up with the rules makings proposals for Jones Beach. I wish I had know about them last December so I could have attended the meetings that made the proposed rules we see now. But it has worked out alright.
The new proposed rules, several of them will put Jones in line with standard rules and language already used in almost all other parks except for the camping part. Listening to the audio of the meetings, really is helpful in understanding why this is happening and the fustration of the community in losing Jones beach to recklessness. Not just the land owners.
So talking with Chris, Senior Policy Analyst, I have learned that the EMERGENCY CLOSURE REQUEST HAS BEEN DROPPED. It is no longer on the table or being discussed. The state is proceeding with RULE MAKING INSTEAD.
DRIVING ON THE BEACH IS STILL ALLOWED. Only ATV class 1-4 are being proposed BANNED OFF JONES PERMANENTLY. Your Car or Truck is not considered in the class 2 or 3 unless you are driving reckless on the beach then you can be ticketed. But normal sensible driving is STILL OKAY.
BEACH CLOSED TO ALL USES FROM 10PM-5AM YEAR ROUND. This can still be debated and discussed at the meeting tonight and in emails comments. There are many people still arguing for both sides of this issue.
Just understand the the land owners do want the night closure because of parties and people being loud all night, stirring up dust ect.
I think the last straw was a band set up out there and 200 people crashed the beach and rocked all night. Sounds like a fun party but suck if your living there.
So with the emails and letters lets not get frantic about a closure. Driving access is a positive thing to write about because that could still be changed now or in the future. Be important to keep our driving priviliges on Jones Beach. Not just for us but for everyone, families, fisherman, those of us with injuries and disabilities.
Some suggestions could be agreeing with the ban of ATV or not, whatever your opinion. Maintaining driving privliges. Signs and marking showing rules and beach boundaries. Yeah or Nay for camping at Jones. Nightime closure I'm personally not for but thats up to your opinion. I am going to suggest maybe camping allowed on the weekends and see how that goes instead of an all out ban of camping or nighttime closure.
Definitly comments on an outhouse but sounds like that won't happen anytime soon and possibly not at all.
I'm gonna chat with sporty at sportys gun shop who is a ex windsurfer and instructor, he had outhouses at jones once upon a time and maybe with his help we can have them again this summer, maybe work with a landowner on this. Will see.
_________________
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Last edited by kochease on Wed May 22, 13 10:46 am; edited 2 times in total |
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kochease
Since 03 Jul 2008
760 Posts
In Ft. Stevens, OR
Opinionated
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| Wed May 22, 13 10:43 am |
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A unified front I believe is important as well. I know many won't or don't agree with my opinion on Jones Beach Rules, but I also haven't made them very clear either oher than a couple rambling rant the night I found out about the potential closure of Jones Beach that we now know isn't happening. But we all have different opinions and I do respect that and I do appreciate any feedback or discussion people are willing to give me or talk about. I am open to debate. I have spent many, many hours on these rule making proceedings and it has evolved my view of a few hings, as well I have learned alot about the area, people and the government agencies.
So now we need to address the other issues that were raised about Jones. And that is what I plan on focusing on.
I believe NAK summed it up very well for most the issues.
| Quote: | First off, what can we, the kiteboarding community, do to help the situation at Jones Beach? We have to respect the local's position and help work towards a solution that addresses their rights and concerns. We need to develop a good relationship with them, as well as appropriate governing agencies. We'll be organizing annual cleanups of Jones Beach for sure. We'll help with signage so that visitors will be aware of Jones Beach regulations and property lines. We'll help Kiteboarders self police our community's behaviour at jones. Basically, we'll do the things we're already doing all over the Gorge.
What should our goals, as a kiteboarding community be at Jones? Fiirst and foremost, we want to maintain Jones Beach as a viable Kiteboarding launch site. We all know that we can do that while keeping Jones a safe and enjoyable spot for locals and visitors alike. It's our job at this and future meetings to get that point across to the governing agencies and the landowners. With a united front, we can do that. This is not the time to try and push for new regulations that one or two of us as individuals may want. That will just confuse the issue. Confuse it too much and the easy answer for the politicians will be just to shut off kiteboarding. They don't understand kitebaording, they don't know what is safe and what isn't. We know and understand that Jones can be a very safe launch point; it's our job to convey that message. Please, PLEASE, don't confuse the message. Let us do our job of protecting your rights. We need your help and your support. Again, I point to our record in the Gorge as a reason why we deserve your help and support.
We hope to maintain vehicular access and jetski launching at Jones, if we can work that out. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, vehicular access is important for many people to be able to reach the shallow launch area. There are kiteboarders who are physically able to kite, but are physically incapable of hiking the 1/4 mile while carrying their gear due to minor disabilities. I can think of one guy with a bum knee... However, we need to respect private property lines. Additionally, it would be great to come up with advisory areas for where not to park, so that kiters can land downwind of vehicles. I think that should be left out of the meeting however. We can work on that later. Again, let's not confuse the issue. As far asJetski launching, Jetskis provides a valuable rescue resource at Jones that is simply not available otherwise.
There's a lot more that will have to go in to this as well. Lavatory facilities will have to be addressed. Certain restrictions like speed limits on vehicles would not hurt us at all. Camping would be nice, but my feeling is that the locals and the police are way too fed up with the situation to allow camping to continue. If regulated camping can be achieved that would be great, but it would be foolish to lose all of our other goals to fight for this one. As far as ATV use, I believe the ATV crowd has made their own bed.
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Anthony has been a huge help with this and has been very insiteful. He has a wealth of knowledge about the area and people and I learned alot from his conversation and emails. Thanks Anthony.
I believe Anthony, Nak and I are on the same page.
With the CGKA I hope the land owners will become friends to us and accepting.
_________________
*AIR PIRATES KITEBOARDING*
F-One, Ocean Rodeo, Litewave, Liquid Force
KITEBOARD LESSONS
https://www.air-pirate.com
*CALL: 503-791-7372 * |
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stringy
Since 23 Jun 2006
1734 Posts
vancouver
XTreme Poster
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| Wed May 22, 13 11:11 am |
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hey nate,
I appreciate your communications and updates on the situation at jones.
I've never been to jones, but I plan to this summer.
with these changes as well as any and all info on this kite spot, I would think it's essential to "update" the beach spots location to inform riders.
I know many are in favor of signage and that is great especially for new visitors not understanding the rules or guidelines. before heading there, I have asked a couple of friends who frequent this spot to show me the ropes. I understand that not every kiteboarder out there knows about nwkite.com and the beach spots location, let alone the CGKA. had I not checked nwkite first, I would have tried contacting a local shop or school for information. that is where you come in. I'm gonna assume you teach here and frequent this spot. like it or not, this makes a good case to make you a "point of contact", or beach rep in collaboration with CGKA.
anyhow, I'm still trying to piece this altogether. I'm familiar with beach access and long walks to any launch. I looked at that image you posted and it doesn't look like quite a 1/2 mile walk. I'm not saying it's an easy walk because I've never been there. I just know what it's like to put your gear on a kayak and paddle across a shipping channel just to make it to an island where i need to trek across to the beach. that's what we need to do in the summer time in seattle when we go kiting at jetty island. so I am familiar with spots where you can't kite right next to your car.
also want to throw out there that our kiting friends up in bellingham had an issue with people peeing in bushes so they installed a honey bucket and put a donation box on it. you might consider that or maybe even have the CGKA help subsidize this. I'm surprised to hear how popular this spot is for kiters and recreationalists and there is no toilet. I think I might be pissed if I was a neighbor knowing visitors are shitting everywhere
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www.jimstringfellow.com |
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Dern
Since 11 Jul 2010
545 Posts
Vancouver, WA
Addicted
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| Wed May 22, 13 11:21 am |
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Maybe one of the landowners will sell off a chunk of their lot on the sand. Wouldn't mind my own personal Jones parking spot.  |
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D-Krep It Kiter
Since 18 Jul 2011
417 Posts
Obsessed
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| Wed May 22, 13 11:54 am |
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| Just spoke to Nate on the phone... he is still on for meeting at the Pizza place (the one on the east end of town) at 4pm. I'll be meeting him there, feel free to join us. |
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BeerKite
Since 29 Mar 2011
471 Posts
Obsessed
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| Wed May 22, 13 1:14 pm |
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| Nice work Nate, Nak, CGKA, and everyone else who is putting in the time and effort for this spot. I rode Jones 2 days ago and it was incredible. Me and one other dude perfectly powered in the Ponds. Anyway, thanks again for the work and the updates. |
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WindSki
Since 14 Dec 2012
411 Posts
Portland
Obsessed
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| Wed May 22, 13 2:10 pm |
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| Evan though I only kite there once a year, a big thank you for the effort provided ! |
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bulae99
Since 12 Jul 2006
1691 Posts
I give out bad advice.
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| Wed May 22, 13 6:56 pm Thanks Nate |
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Jones Beach is awesome!
A terrific place to kite and learn to kite for sure. It would be a huge loss to not be able to drive out, safely, and kite.
I would have come but I had to work,
Thanks
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Hey, I'm being hahahahahrassed! |
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pkh
Since 27 Feb 2005
6549 Posts
Couve / Hood
Honored Founder
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| Thu May 23, 13 5:27 am |
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Thanks for your work on this!
I am all for an ATV ban, that is great news!
I have enjoyed RV'ing overnight at Jones so it would be a bummer to lose that access. Also being able to drive to the waterfront is nice too, but I have also walked from the parking area no problem. |
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skent
Since 08 Aug 2011
170 Posts
North Bend, WA & Lyle, WA
Stoked
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| Thu May 23, 13 7:05 am |
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How did last nights meeting go?
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Steve
CGKA Member |
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D-Krep It Kiter
Since 18 Jul 2011
417 Posts
Obsessed
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| Thu May 23, 13 8:04 am |
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| skent wrote: | | How did last nights meeting go? |
It went well... the meeting was really just an opportunity for people to give testimony... while informal, each individual came up to a little recorder, said their name etc, and then expressed their concerns.
The ATV people were only represented by one guy and his grandson (the grandson didn't offer any input). I believe their were 6 kiters there, including myself. I think we showed pretty good unity. Scott, Nate, and myself all gave testimony. Scott talked about the CKGA. Nate and I talked more about what we'd experienced at Jones in terms of issues with the ATV people, and concerns about camping/parking.
What kiters using Jones Beach need to understand is that if you are coming on to Jones Beach from the WEST end, where most people kite you are on private property. If you park on the side of the road, you are parking on private property. If you drive your vehicle on to the sand in front of the shallow bay to park near the "kite area" you are almost certainly on private property. If you walk in anywhere on the west end across the sand to get to the water, you are walking on private property.
For most kiters, the rules being suggested are not that important, because we are not kiting on Dept. of State Land. We are using Mr. Fraser's (I hope I got the spelling right) to access the water. The good news is that he is very open to co-operating with kiters and allowing access. They just want an end to the ATVs roaring around, and people partying all hours of the night.
While this issue gets resolved, kiters can help out by first recognizing & respecting that they are using someone's private property to kite at Jones. Again, if you are parking elsewhere than on the paved lot on the east end, then you are very likely on someone's property. Help yourself and the rest of us kiters out by being respectful:
-dont joy ride if you drive on to the sand. Drive on & off slowly.
-take any garbage with you.
-DO NOT take a crap in the bushes! If ya gotta go, head back to Clatskanie. Seems extreme, but you're taking a dump on someone's property! Hopefully we'll get porta-potti's in there eventually.
-if you park on the side of the road, do not obstruct the road way. Get your vehicle off the road as much as you can. If you car is blocking the road, park somewhere else. The property owner has a semi and has had issues getting by kiters vehicles occasionally.
-do not park in anyone's driveway! We don't know who it was, but someone did and they owners weren't impressed.
Right now, kiters are not perceived as the problem. The real issues are the ATVs and the over-night camping. Please, if you are going to comment with criticism towards the people trying to ban the ATVs and over-night camping, do some research first. One woman was physically threatened on her own property when she confronted an ATV rider. Think how you'd feel if this was going on literally in your backyard. Its great to think we can all just get along, but in reality, that is not working at Jones. The land owners have had enough, and really, they could insist that we not use their property at all, which would really change the dynamic of kiting at Jones. We would all have to use the paved parking area, and walk along the shoreline if we wanted to reach the "kite bay".
We have the contact info for the land-owner, and he is very willing to work with kiters to allow us to continue using his property. That's very generous of him. Lets show him the respect he deserves and keep kiting at Jones a positive experience for everyone. |
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Justsmile
Since 20 Jul 2009
1530 Posts
Not Portland
XTreme Poster
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| Thu May 23, 13 8:27 am |
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| Does mr Fraser drink beer or whiskey. Might be nice to drop him off a bottle next time passing through. Which particular house does he live at so we can pass on our thanks for his understanding and generosity:-)!! |
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kochease
Since 03 Jul 2008
760 Posts
In Ft. Stevens, OR
Opinionated
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| Thu May 23, 13 5:54 pm |
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D-Krep summed it up very well. I plan on endulging into my anti-atv stance in some emails to state. I didn't want to spend too much time on that issue speaking on record with the home owners their. I focused more on how we as kiters self police the area, are respectful and want to work with the land owners and contribute to the area. I briefly mentioned that it is sad that such ax type rules are coming down without maybe some progressive steps to see how they worked. But I understand the concerns for not having minor steps, JOnes is a different place and the riders are a different breed there, most steps would not work. Signs most likely ignored or torn down, fences run over.
So in the grand scheme of things at Jones, banning ATV would be a solid solution and eliminate 75% of the problems with Jones. Families could return and enjoy the beach, home owners would have peace and kiters won't get kites ran over or thru anymore. I support the ATV ban. At first I was questioning it, but after seeing how little property is really the state's, there is just not enough room. Suprisingly most of Jones is privately owned.
Mr Fraser was very gracious and I got a great positive feedback from him regarding kiteboarders. Biggest complaint is the parking. We really need to be better about how we park and to inform new people to the beach about we to behave while on Scott frasers property and the favor he is giving us to use his land.
I spoke some against the no camping, I like camping at Jones. I offered a weekday closure instead of a all out ban so weekends could still be enjoyed by all. If others want to do the same feel free to email the state. A closure of some sort will likely happen, too many police calls to jones transients and long term fisherman camping, vandalism, theft, violence. It has to stop and the solution proposed is the night closure. hopefully we can pursewayed the board into less harsh measures.
Keep up the campaign, it is not over until June 28th.
Thanks
Nate
_________________
*AIR PIRATES KITEBOARDING*
F-One, Ocean Rodeo, Litewave, Liquid Force
KITEBOARD LESSONS
https://www.air-pirate.com
*CALL: 503-791-7372 * |
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Moto
Since 03 Sep 2006
2698 Posts
Still a gojo pimp!
Moto Mouth
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| Thu May 23, 13 6:23 pm |
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| D-Krep It Kiter wrote: | | DO NOT take a crap in the bushes! If ya gotta go, head back to Clatskanie. Seems extreme, but you're taking a dump on someone's property! |
K-Krep It:
Practical issue here. There are a lot of people who will see this and abide by the rule (no crapping in bushes), but there are many people who go to Jones that have no idea what the rules are - and have no idea they are crapping on private property.
How are we going to address this situation so kiters quit crapping on Mr. Fraser's property?
Put up signs: Please Don't Crap in Bushes. Crap Free Zone. A sign with a dookie and an X through it.
Also, what about bringing camping porta potty things where you crap in a plastic bag and pack it out with you.
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Still rockin gojos, *ssless chaps, and ankle weights! |
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BeerKite
Since 29 Mar 2011
471 Posts
Obsessed
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| Thu May 23, 13 7:05 pm |
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How's about one of these fancy things?
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D-Krep It Kiter
Since 18 Jul 2011
417 Posts
Obsessed
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| Thu May 23, 13 10:52 pm |
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| Moto wrote: |
How are we going to address this situation so kiters quit crapping on Mr. Fraser's property?
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These things were discussed at the meeting. Signage will be posted at some time in the future. At this time ATV's & camping are not banned and the last time Porta-Pottis were brought in they ended up getting repeatedly vandalized. So things need to develop a bit more before this gets completely resolved. In the mean time, we can do our part by complying with the land-owners wishes, and spreading the word to other kiters using the area.
Right now, I'm doing what I promised at the meeting, which is starting to spread the word by posting on the forum. Nate & Scott will be making more long term arrangements. This is a transitional time right now. The land-owners are aware that we can't control the behavior of every kiter... they know that. There's no point in worrying about people we have no control over. For now, lets just do what can to not make the situation any worse, and continue to enjoy the access they are graciously granting us. |
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Anthony
Since 07 Oct 2008
362 Posts
Salem
Obsessed
CGKA Member
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| Fri May 24, 13 5:50 am |
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| I have posted links to nwkite for the information for the windsurfer groups: Nwwindtalk pdxwindsurfer gorge windsurfer, |
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